Finnic Portraits anyone?

[BaronIronmaggot]

Portraits are very needed for them. Current one's don't just cut it for them.

What should they be like:

Blonde, definately blonde. Now, here is a fairly high chance that you make a mistake here. No, blonde is not just the piss-yellow and silver-white. Blonde hair color is a separate hair color all together. Just like red hair. The gradient of blonde is something like this: almost-white, light beige, beige, dark beige, light ash brown, ash brown, dark ash brown, almost black. A key to tell the difference between actual brown gradient blonde and the north-east european blonde is the vividness of the color. North-east european blonde hair are not very vivid. Each shade is plain and doesn't stick into the eye. The hair colors, that the current Norse portrait pack has, is vivid and strikes out.

Facial features. Well, none. In the sense that no pronounced features at all. Finnic faces are smooth.

Here's a comparison of norse and finnic female faces:

 

[Siil]

Please.

I already told you, it's kind of serious to think that stuff in the 21st century. As I said, it's 100% racism, it's not just a poor choice of picture. I am actually horrified that there's people in here who is convinced of things like those.

So don't make us sound like nitpickers or people who want to start flamewars. If someone writes bullshit, I answer, simple as that.

You use the word "racist" way too easily. You are at the different end of the spectrum from "Aryan White Power" type of people, but that just means another kind of a zealot. Baron never offended any ethnicity or race, he just made some hasty assumptions based on a picture.

Using the word "racist" as a weapon is just as despicable as being one.

 

[SlackBladder]

I think a big mistake was made by tying European cultural clothes to new faces. There isn't enough diffeence between, say, Norse and German chins that there needs to be a whole new set of faces. The new clothes alone would be more than sufficient. One big hope I have is that some day there will be an option to enable clothes-only on the portrait packs, then I would have a reason to get the Mediterranean pack sans awful faces. But I have no idea how feasible that is.

In the meantime, the Early Eastern pack coming with Mediterranean faces is a huge oversight and I really don't like seeing content I purposefully haven't bought in my game. I hope that gets fixed as fast as possible.

 

[unmerged(652342)]

No I don't rule out the possibility of mutation. Mutations happens, but they are rare. That lady may be the product of a mutation, but her being an offspring of an germanic immigrant in Ukraine is far more likely.

Germanic phenotype evolved to cope with the germanic forests in germania and near germania and also to cope with their hyper-masculine society. There were likely many parallel evolutions, but they all resulted in phenotypes that are essentially the same. Large teeth, strong jaws, large cheek bones to accomodate the first two, prominent brow bone. Basically human versions of the Krogans.

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

You use the word "racist" way too easily. You are at the different end of the spectrum from "Aryan White Power" type of people, but that just means another kind of a zealot. Baron never offended any ethnicity or race, he just made some hasty assumptions based on a picture.

Using the word "racist" as a weapon is just as despicable as being one.

- except he just recites century old racial propaganda.

 

[greendevil]

You use the word "racist" way too easily. You are at the different end of the spectrum from "Aryan White Power" type of people, but that just means another kind of a zealot. Baron never offended any ethnicity or race, he just made some hasty assumptions based on a picture.

Using the word "racist" as a weapon is just as despicable as being one.

You aren't a racist if you insult other races. You are a racist if you believe in the existance of human races with clear and definite features and a certain degree of purity.

He claims that ancient Germans all had the same features and were clearly separated from the rest. He even calls them the "human Krogan". So yes, that's racist (other than ridiculous).

I find that train of thought repulsive because of two reasons.

A) It has been disproved by pretty much all sciences as well as social sciences, and seeing this stuff being posted here and passed as if it was some kind of truth is just awful
B) It's not only wrong on a conceptual level to divide human kind in clear and definite races, but it's also dangerous: it often leads to thinking that there are superior and inferior breeds of human beings

So yeah, I'm not using any word as a weapon, I'm just calling things as they are as well as expressing my displeasure in seeing people post absolutely ridiculous stuff while pretending to pass it as some kind of "scientific" truth.

 

[Damarrocarion]

Can we all just please agree that the Finnish portraits should look like Matt Damon or Ville Haapasalo while the Scandinavians should all look either like Dirk Kuyt or Dolph Lundgreen?

I demand proper caps for Finns so we can all be like Ville! (no, he is not the guy on the left)

 

[greendevil]

By the way, I also want to say that hoping to represent and describe millions of people by posting a couple of pics is stupid.

 

[ekorovin]

I demand proper caps for Finns so we can all be like Ville! (no, he is not the guy on the left)

From the lizard chevron I can deduct that the guy in uniform serves in Ural Regional Command of Internal Troops of the Ministry for Internal Affairs of Russia. The possibility that he is either Finnish (Volga or Permian) or have Finnic ancestry is very high

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

Muh rasicm...

I used men whose features are exaggerated enough to make differences obvious.

You aren't a racist if you insult other races. You are a racist if you believe in the existance of human races with clear and definite features and a certain degree of purity.

Lets call those things with a correct term now - breeds. Human phenotypes work exactly like dog phenotypes. If someone bred humans like dogs, the diversity of shapes and sizes of humans would be just as diverse as the dogs are now.

He claims that ancient Germans all had the same features and were clearly separated from the rest. He even calls them the "human Krogan". So yes, that's racist (other than ridiculous).

Ever heard of the "bottleneck effect". If certain people fight a lot, natural selection is gonna weed out those who are less suited for fighting. Ancient germanic skulls are more suited for taking damage without breaking. Their skulls tend possess features that make the skull more sturdy. Bigger brow bones and cheek bones will protect eyes and at the same time grant structural integrity to make the collapse of a skull less likely in a result of a blow to the face. In addition to the protection that the shape of the skull offers, the portruding bones are also thick - breaking a thick bone is harder than breaking a thin bone.

I find that train of thought repulsive because of two reasons.

A) It has been disproved by pretty much all sciences as well as social sciences, and seeing this stuff being posted here and passed as if it was some kind of truth is just awful
B) It's not only wrong on a conceptual level to divide human kind in clear and definite races, but it's also dangerous: it often leads to thinking that there are superior and inferior breeds of human beings

A) The principles of basic workings of genetics have been proven wrong? What?
B) Assuming that I make a clear and definite divisions. I am using the basic principles of statistics to make statistical divisions. Another basic schoolstuff.

Statistical race/breed of people in a given location - phenotypical features most likely found in that given location. If people in location X are most likely fair haired, their race/breed is fair-haired. If the people in location X are most likely to have a strong jaw, their race/breed has a strong jaw. If people in location X have beaks instead of their noses, their race/breed has beakes. Summing all of this up, the race/breed of location X has fair-hair, strong jaw and beaks. This does not outlaw the possibility that people there have elephant snouts, but tells us that you are definately gonna find people who, for some strange reason, have beaks instead of noses.

 

[Finnishviking]

Racist


Only true german

 

[SlackBladder]

Racist
View attachment 118076

Only true german

We need an Austrian face pack to make them all look like Arny.

 

[Kapitalisti]

We need an Austrian face pack to make them all look like Arny.

Nay, we need an Austrian body pack to make them all look like Arnie.

 

[sreckom92]

I don't think that game needs more portrait packs. At least not in Europe.

 

[SovereignGrave]

I don't think that game needs more portrait packs. At least not in Europe.

When you have people in the Baltics and Finland looking exactly like people in France and Germany, I'd have to disagree with you.

 

[Faravid]

In fact, blue eyes, blond hair and pale skin are are not Germanic, Finnic or even Baltic qualities but (quite surprisingly) Neanderthal ones:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/01/140126-blue-eye-spain-fossil-human-discovery-gene/
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22129542.600-neanderthalhuman-sex-bred-light-skins-and-infertility.html#.VFpCkMnXSYk

Blond hair and blue eyes are recessive qualities, so they have disappeared practically from everywhere but the most isolated corners of Europe (i.e. here in the Nordics).

That being said, I don't think it's worth clinging to your favorite haplogroups, phenotypes and whatnot, like some people seem to do. Basically the whole Europe is more or less of the same bunch. Plus peoples and populations have mixed so much that there simply isn't "pure" anything.

As to the portraits, I don't think Finno-Ugrics need a pack of their own. Norse and Russian look both OK to me. There should be more beard, though. Finnish men liked their face hairy

 

[Draker5]

How the hell can acknowledging differences in people from different populations be considered racist?

"No mister *generic african name*, I will nor hire you because you are of african descent"

That is racist.

"The average romanian has rounder eyes than the average korean"

That is not racist but a fact, although the topic of stereotypical jokes, and one that can be seen with the naked eye. Saying that it's not true doesn't mean you're not a racist but confirms that you are, in fact, quite dumb. Sorry.

On topic, like I said before, Finno-ugrics just can't look like cosmopolitan people from Paris. I really don't care about jawlines or any of that because the portraits are so low resolution anyway. Just give them beards and untamed hair, maybe some specific kinds of clothes and accessories.

EDIT: I also support a drunken sauna convention with our southern brothers.

 

[greendevil]

How the hell can acknowledging differences in people from different populations be considered racist?

You missed the point completely and obviously didn't read the thread carefully.

 

[Draker5]

You missed the point completely and obviously didn't read the thread carefully.

But you said this:

You are a racist if you believe in the existance of human races with clear and definite features

 

[Siil]

I used men whose features are exaggerated enough to make differences obvious.

When I first saw you posting another series of pictures I thought: "Oh damn, here goes flamewar round 2", but after taking a closer look I realized I was having some weird deja vu...

You see, although being quite fond of CK2 lately, I've played many RPGs in past, both single player and MMO. As years pass, the new ones come with more and more detailed character creators, especially for facial features.
There are four main types of RPG players: hot babe, lizard/catman/orc/robot, young Arnie/Conan the Barbarian, normal human. I am one of the latter and can get obsessed for hours to make my virtual hero look like me, using both photos and mirror. I just realized that your comments about the Baltic-Finnic guy vs. the bearded man with multiple bone protrusions on your pictures are the basic ideas I have always used to create my character's face...

I don't know what kind of bitching will follow here, but at least you made my jaw drop with surprise, with its soft angles and round chin.



Draker5: Don't bother, witchhunters are what they are. Their dualist minds just follow their dogmatic "ultimate truth".

 

[sreckom92]

When you have people in the Baltics and Finland looking exactly like people in France and Germany, I'd have to disagree with you.

To be honest, there is not that many differences between them. I can agree that unique hairstyles, clothing and headgear could be given to them.

 

[BaronIronmaggot]

In fact, blue eyes, blond hair and pale skin are are not Germanic, Finnic or even Baltic qualities but (quite surprisingly) Neanderthal ones

......

That being said, I don't think it's worth clinging to your favorite haplogroups, phenotypes and whatnot, like some people seem to do. Basically the whole Europe is more or less of the same bunch. Plus peoples and populations have mixed so much that there simply isn't "pure" anything.

I would have to partially disagree and partially agree. It is important to read into the context when someone uses the word "Germanic", "Finnic", "Baltic". These words can have multiple meaning and contexts. Word "Germanic" can be used in culture, historical polities, biological population groups. The context that I used it was - the biological Germanic population or in other words the general biological characteristics of the people living in Germania during the iron age. Blue eyes, blond hair or whatnot are just characteristics that can be assigned to that group, but assigning them to a group does not make these characteristics exclusive to that single group. Many groups can share these characteristics.

A biological group can split. It can merge with another. It can assimilate to other groups. But the characteristics themselves never dissappear. Take for example red hair. The red haired groups may be nearly extinct, but that doesn't mean that red haired people are gone. They have just assimilated into other groups.

A lot of the people, who obnoxiously nitpick, seem to have trouble grasping that genetics of biological group can change - the characteristics of a group can travel, can spontaneouslty appear or can dissolve as the time passes. So, the germanics 2000 years ago are bound to be different from germans today but similar enough to resemble them slightly. Estonians 1000 years ago are bound to be different than today but are still bound to resemble them slightly. Finns in the north-western russia are bound to be different from the russians living there today, but north-western russians are bound to resemble the ancient finns at least slightly. Finns in finland 1000 years ago are bound to be different then they are today. After 1000 years of slight merging of swedish and finnish population, finnish are bound to resemble swedish and the swedish are bound to resemble finns ever so slightly.

With the new fast means of travel the merging of biological groups is accelerated. So the populations of Europe are bound to resemble each other much more than they did so 1000 years ago.