Finland Joined Allies against SU

[Blinckx]

Ok that's a little bit odd and stupid.
Allies are fighting against Germany and they care about what happen in Finland in a war against Soviet Union ? Finland have no political faction that could justify such support ( both fascism and demo were at 10% ) and in term of logic it 's a suicide for the allies, fightin a war against Germany AND SU at the same time.
I'm tempted to join the Axis right now

Also joining a faction while already in a war is weird imho, specially if there is no political support at all

 

[Tisreece]

Yeah I find this weird also and very hard to track. I find countries join the allies so willingly and in some cases unpredictably.
I once has Saudi Arabia join the allies in a campaign. I mean - wtf right?

 

[Beagá]

Ok that's a little bit odd and stupid.
Allies are fighting against Germany and they care about what happen in Finland in a war against Soviet Union ? Finland have no political faction that could justify such support ( both fascism and demo were at 10% ) and in term of logic it 's a suicide for the allies, fightin a war against Germany AND SU at the same time.
I'm tempted to join the Axis right now

Also joining a faction while already in a war is weird imho, specially if there is no political support at all

Yes had the same, and it´s annoying. Finland should join the Axis but that would be a bit exploity, that´s probably why they made it that way. So you can´t go around Molotov Ribbentrop.

Truth be said since Finland was a democracy it kinda makes sense it joins democracies.

Also, in my Germany game AI soviet DOWed Finland in 1940 and puppeted them, with no alliance with UK for Finland...

 

[algame]

In almost every game I play the Soviets are at war with the Allies by 40-41. It turns the whole campaign into a farce if Im trying to prepare operation Barbarrossa as the germans.

And in one game the Soviets attacked poland because germany was taking to long to conquer them, Allies immediatley declare war on Soviets. Ironic because its kind of historical except the Allies didnt actually care what the Soviets did.

This is on historical mode, they shouldnt even bother with a historical mode button if this is how the game is really designed, I cant imagine 'nonhistorical' mode could be any worse unless they actually have martians invading earth...

Almost makes HOI3 look like a masterpeice, at least the german/soviet war usually went in a historical path.

 

[Blinckx]

Truth be said since Finland was a democracy it kinda makes sense it joins democracies...

Maybe in real it was a democracy but here in my game as you can see there's no leading faction. Axis or Allies have no interest to join with a Country where they have no support amongst the people or the government. IMHO you will be allowed to join a faction only if your government has a faction ( Communism, Democracy, Fascism )

More than that anyway i can see a total flaw in AI logic.
Allies should the SU to fight against the Axis because they have no hope to survive in 1940 but hey, it's better to fight for Finland !!

I do wonder if i declare war against Axis what will happen. I'll be at war with anyone ? Allies and Axis unite and stand against me ?

 

[Builder_125]

This happens to me all the time, even playing with different countries ..... result is axis vs allies and Su vs Allies and germany not going to war with Su, and all this with active historical focuses

 

[Oddb@ll]

People wanted sandbox. So we got sandbox.

 

[Blinckx]

People wanted sandbox. So we got sandbox.

That's not a sandbox, that's AI being idiot

 

[Aldahen]

Finland joining the Allies after the Soviet attack in 1939 is what almost happened historically.
Finland was willing to accept anybodies support and the Soviet aggression outraged the allies.
There was discussion about declaring a war to the Soviets. Many countries sent volunteers and equipment to Finland.

 

[nhsk]

Hey I've had Romania join allies before the Soviet Ultimatum, hilarity ensued.

 

[Blinckx]

Finland joining the Allies after the Soviet attack in 1939 is what almost happened historically.
Finland was willing to accept anybodies support and the Soviet aggression outraged the allies.
There was discussion about declaring a war to the Soviets. Many countries sent volunteers and equipment to Finland.

But it did not happen at all
I'm ok with allies sending volunteers and equipment but join the war directly is suicidal since the allies are already losing a war against Axis.
So now Finland have to face me attacking from the east and the Nazi attacking from the South. Smart move indeed

 

[nhsk]

People wanted sandbox. So we got sandbox.

Oh please, like HoI3 wasn't sandbox with world conquests with powers like Tibet or conquering Italy before 1940 as Ethiopia.

 

[Oddb@ll]

Oh please, like HoI3 wasn't sandbox with world conquests with powers like Tibet or conquering Italy before 1940 as Ethiopia.

I agree. Wasn't comparing the two though

 

[nhsk]

I agree. Wasn't comparing the two though

Fair enough, just seen a couple of opinions that HoI3 was somehow "hard" and that it is new that countries like Turkey can go nuts in this game.

 

[potski]

This is on historical mode, they shouldnt even bother with a historical mode button if this is how the game is really designed, I cant imagine 'nonhistorical' mode could be any worse unless they actually have martians invading earth...

Almost makes HOI3 look like a masterpeice, at least the german/soviet war usually went in a historical path.

There is no "historical mode". The game is not railroaded to give historical outcomes to either the faction membership or wars. This is a sandbox game.

The option you are referring to is Historical AI National Focuses. So Germany offering the M-R Pact should happen in that mode, and Germany and the Soviets should not go to war in 1939, and will then partition Poland when it capitulates. The Soviets have a NF to claim Karelia and therefore go to war with Finland. But Finland's own response, plus that of Germany, the Allies, Sweden etc. is not forced on them by NFs. Specifically Finland does not have an NF telling it to join the Allies if invaded by the Soviets.

I notice Nationalist Spain is a member of the Axis in the screenshot. People playing as the Axis never complain about that

Finland should join the Axis but that would be a bit exploity, that´s probably why they made it that way. So you can´t go around Molotov Ribbentrop.

They didn't join the Axis IRL in 1939, nor formally in 1941.

Did you try to improve relations with Finland and make them fascist?

Also joining a faction while already in a war is weird imho, specially if there is no political support at all

Norway, the Netherlands, Belgium, Greece IRL. China (not a democracy) even joined the Allies after several years of war with Japan. Brazil and others joined the Allies late in the war, and Brazil sent forces to fight in Europe.

When joining factions ideology is taken into account. They are less likely to be allowed to join the Allies if Non-Aligned, and their own neutral stance means they should not ask to join any factions unless they are threatened with war.

Finland's behaviour in the game is sensible. It's behaviour IRL was not. It (stupidly) believed that Germany would come to it's aid in the Winter War, as happened in 1918. Mannerheim seemed oblivious to the fact that he had been stabbed in the back by Germany with the secret protocols in the M-R Pact. One of the strangest things I ever heard was a recording of Hitler speaking to Mannerheim after Barbarossa trying to explain why he didn't send any Divisions to Finland in the winter of 1939-40. According to him, his Generals wouldn't let him and his army wasn't equipped to fight in winter.

 

[Aldahen]

But it did not happen at all
I'm ok with allies sending volunteers and equipment but join the war directly is suicidal since the allies are already losing a war against Axis.
So now Finland have to face me attacking from the east and the Nazi attacking from the South. Smart move indeed

I personally think this "joining a faction if declared a war on"-mechansim is good and realistic.
Good: It poses a risk to the player and he can't just stomp all the neighbors at his will.
Realistic: Nobody wants to be alone in front of the enemy. And allies are your go to faction for neutrals.

In your example it creates a 3-way war, which wasn't that far even historically.

 

[nhsk]

I notice Nationalist Spain is a member of the Axis in the screenshot. People playing as the Axis never complain about that

I complain about that, cba with all that extra atlantic coast for the allies to invade

 

[Blinckx]

When joining factions ideology is taken into account. They are less likely to be allowed to join the Allies if Non-Aligned, and their own neutral stance means they should not ask to join any factions unless they are threatened with war..

But if you look at the screen-shot this is not what happened at all
Finland has 10% Fascist 10% Democratic and the rest non-aligned but they joined allies
Axis and Allies should have both ignore the request IMHO, they have no real politic support to ask to join those factions

And, once again, it is just a stupid move ask to the allies. A lot better it would be if Finland join Axis but in this way the Allies are going to die like in less than one year.

 

[t6.28]

I generally think the AI needs to be more pragmatic about joining factions. Currently they seem to always join the Allies, even if that's total suicide. I'd love to see even democratic countries joining the Axis or the Comintern, if those factions can defend them better. I'd also love it, if countries that are currently not in a war were more reluctant to join a faction that is currently at war. It feels really stupid how the Netherlands like joining the Allies, although the entire rest of mainland Europe is controlled by the Axis.

 

[Mav12]

Wasn't Finland somewhat of an unofficial axis member/german ally? IIRC they even participated in the siege of Leningrad