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Korashy

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Byz can't holy war you and they rarely go to war against non balkan/lombards anyways. You should pushing hard into the Muslim.

edit: ninjad by update.

The caliph is old, will probably die soon, leaving a kid, just wait for them to waste their event troops and continue business as usual. Try to become orthodox and get your holy order. You will need to expand if you want to survive Jihads at 900.
 

Matthias_Wlkp

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If I'm not mistaken, that's a Chancellor in Abbasid capital? It helped me when holy warring some other Muslims - +100 king om Medina did not join my enemies. However in the past I remember being invaded by rulers with +100 towards me...

I don't know how the AI weights targets, but Byzantines can attack you for Imperial or Kingdom De Jure - that will take only one province, but as soon as you are weak, the Abbasids will join.

Personally, I think swearing fealty to Byzzies makes more sense, but on the other hand I would be curious to know if I'm wrong...

At least try to marry with the emperror so he's your ally...
 

DukeDrunken

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Byz can't holy war you and they rarely go to war against non balkan/lombards anyways. You should pushing hard into the Muslim.

edit: ninjad by update.

The caliph is old, will probably die soon, leaving a kid, just wait for them to waste their event troops and continue business as usual. Try to become orthodox and get your holy order. You will need to expand if you want to survive Jihads at 900.

Well I agree that holy orders are essential for when the crusades/Baktashi order comes into play. But the whole point of the playthrough is to see how far I can take this Messalian adventure. That being said the Messalain faith is now the defacto faith making Nestorian the heresy. Given the previous I can work towards getting the Nestorian/Messalian holy orders. Only problem with that is the perquisites for the nestorian holy order are control of either (maybe both?) Baghdad and/or Jerusalem, not something I see happening in the next 100 years.
 

Korashy

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Well I agree that holy orders are essential for when the crusades/Baktashi order comes into play. But the whole point of the playthrough is to see how far I can take this Messalian adventure. That being said the Messalain faith is now the defacto faith making Nestorian the heresy. Given the previous I can work towards getting the Nestorian/Messalian holy orders. Only problem with that is the perquisites for the nestorian holy order are control of either (maybe both?) Baghdad and/or Jerusalem, not something I see happening in the next 100 years.

Making Messalian the orthodoxy is what I was referring to in my post. Just wait, they'll probably explode against. They are already at 28% decadence. Once the train starts, there is no stopping it.
 
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DukeDrunken

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If I'm not mistaken, that's a Chancellor in Abbasid capital? It helped me when holy warring some other Muslims - +100 king om Medina did not join my enemies. However in the past I remember being invaded by rulers with +100 towards me...

I don't know how the AI weights targets, but Byzantines can attack you for Imperial or Kingdom De Jure - that will take only one province, but as soon as you are weak, the Abbasids will join.

Personally, I think swearing fealty to Byzzies makes more sense, but on the other hand I would be curious to know if I'm wrong...

At least try to marry with the emperror so he's your ally...

Oh yah. There is alot of ass kissing involved dont get me wrong. My Chancellor pretty much bought a house in both Damascus and Constantinople since he is either at least once a year. Did the same with my Zunbil playthrough. HAD to have my Chancellor in the Abbasids court pretty much on his knees the whole playthough to stave off the angry Abbasids.

But as you mentioned its still not guaranteed to keep them at bay.
 

Korashy

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Well, to be honest, you are levantine and camel cavalry is broken. Rush military org + cavalry tech and you can stomp abbasids with about 5-6k Camel cav
 
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TurtleShroom

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On a side note for some reason that is beyond me this video game was not amused with me taking Incestual Kingdoms to the next level and rewarded me with an army that.......well.....they wear PINK.
E7D0F8025379796732DE8B9AD993B6F78058C177


So far I am not sure if the lack of a full on invasion by either the Abbasids or the Byzantines is due to sheer luck or if it is due to the fact that they both have not stopped laughing yet at the color of my military uniforms.....either way.....that's the update.

I have to admit, that part of your post really, really made me smile. Thank you for improving my day.
 
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DukeDrunken

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Making Messalian the orthodoxy is what I was referring to in my post. Just wait, they'll probably explode against. They are already at 28% decadence. Once the train starts, there is no stopping it.

You were right. The Abbasids were hit with a massive decadence revolt as we type this. Not to mention the sleeping giant to the north (the byzantines) decided it was time to holy war with....you guessed it, the Abbasids for control of Galallee.

Time to settle some old scores with the Abbasids, not to mention take full advantage of the situation.
 

mrstevehazzard

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If you've taken over from Nestorian as the new orthodoxy, then you don't have much to fear from the Byzantines. They can't holy war you and they'll only have a small opinion malus for having a differing branch of Christianity...hell, you should be able to take a comely Byzantine bride (or husband) as a mate and bind them to you in marriage. It worked for Bulgaria!
 
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Korashy

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If you've taken over from Nestorian as the new orthodoxy, then you don't have much to fear from the Byzantines. They can't holy war you and they'll only have a small opinion malus for having a differing branch of Christianity...hell, you should be able to take a comely Byzantine bride (or husband) as a mate and bind them to you in marriage. It worked for Bulgaria!

You can only holy war your own heresies anyways. Catholic for example can't holy war miaphysite or monophysite, while they could holy war each other. Either of those two can't holy war lollard (or catholic), in turn.
 
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DukeDrunken

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If you've taken over from Nestorian as the new orthodoxy, then you don't have much to fear from the Byzantines. They can't holy war you and they'll only have a small opinion malus for having a differing branch of Christianity...hell, you should be able to take a comely Byzantine bride (or husband) as a mate and bind them to you in marriage. It worked for Bulgaria!

Well that explains the docile Byzantine Empire. Thanks I did not know that.
 

Korashy

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Well that explains the docile Byzantine Empire. Thanks I did not know that.

It's actually kind of annoying because holy war is the best. But yeah, you really don't have to worry much about BYZ itself, though some of the strategos or counts may try to push claims on their own.
 

Teonod

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Leaving me between a literal 'rock and a hard place' with both the Abbasids to the south and the Byzantines to the north.
How is that a literal "rock and a hard place"?

Are you saying that your Kingdom is physically located between a rock and a "hard place"?

I praise your achievements in the game, but this is in no way the correct use of 'literal'.
 
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How is that a literal "rock and a hard place"?

Are you saying that your Kingdom is physically located between a rock and a "hard place"?

I praise your achievements in the game, but this is in no way the correct use of 'literal'.

Not meaning to end up in an etymological argument, but the phrase "literal" in modern and even older context has rarely meant literal as in actual. Especially in a modern English setting, it is perfectly acceptable to use literal in the sense that the OP has.

But yes, well done OP. I hope to hear more of your adventures, and hopefully even more success.
 
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DukeDrunken

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September 928 AD:

With a heavy heart I would like to report the end of my Messalian Kingdom to a full blown invasion on the Sultanate of Antioch by the Sunni Caliphate. Although our men fought to their last drop of blood; the 25 thousand Muslim warriors were just too much to deal with.

At it's zenith the Messalian Kingdom spanned from the shores of Antioch to deep within Asia minor holding the territories of the Kingdom of Armenia as well.

6EFADCCEE473EB41E337BA2939E275EF790E21A2


With the final order to be made from the Royal Palace in Antioch to be the creation of the Armenian Kingdom and the destruction of the Kingdom of Antioch.

While a sizable chunk of my once mighty Kingdom is still intact. Most of our military capabilities/facilities were focused on the counties along the Mediterranean shore. This leaves a very long road ahead if it was to be reclaimed. A road not with diminished religious authority due to our 5 or 6 holy wars against the Caliphate that always came so close to victory but ended up running into the big green wall to the south of us.

While what remains is not at all unplayable. It will be a long drawn out demise in my humble opinion with the loss of both our military war machines and buildings as well a constant threat of conversion with the loss of our holy city and extremely diminished religious authority.

Perhaps of I wasn't too greedy in trying to snag a duchy here and there every time I saw the Caliphate deep in conflict. That inadvertently increased Sunni religious authority. With the Caliph staring at 100% decadence it was either attack us or wait for the inevitable 9th decadence revolt.

Perhaps in the hand of a much more patient ruler this could have turned into a proper Messalian Empire, or maybe not. Either way ladies and gentleman it just goes to show that with a little luck and many attempts. The seemingly impossible can be done. That impossible being the foundation of a proper Messalian Kingdom that traces the historical lands of the mythical Messalians.

Looking forward to your tries at this.

REMEMBER the Messalians have a secret weapon no other religion has.....that weapon being the ability to appoint women on your council, as rulers as well as on the battle field as commanders. This as we all know is pretty valuable when you ask yourself how many times you had a female courtier with star stats but she was regulated to tutoring.

From our once mighty and very PINK uniformed men.

-Good Luck In your Playthroughs.
 

oderis

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I have played an ironman game as Socotra and managed to create a messalian empire (and even inherited the bizantine empire later with some luck).
I will post some screenshots if you are interested :)
Obviously it's not as historical as your try, but it was definitely challenging ;)
 

Teonod

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Not meaning to end up in an etymological argument, but the phrase "literal" in modern and even older context has rarely meant literal as in actual. Especially in a modern English setting, it is perfectly acceptable to use literal in the sense that the OP has.

But yes, well done OP. I hope to hear more of your adventures, and hopefully even more success.
Not according to Oxford Dictionary, but if you say so then I guess I'll have to believe you.
 

Kaertigern

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Why not playing a muslim vassal in the area, like an emir in Kurdistan or around Mosul, since there is already some nestorian lands around. Then, you know, once you have enough to stand, your heir can be educated by some nestorian courtier (or messalian if a county has flip to the heresy) and, by events with the chaplain, go messalian. Or rulerdesign it ofc. Once the caliph is weak you can expand south an create the holy order, and Antioch is not far.
By keeping some of your children muslim, you can keep having alliances around and go independent when it's time.
Best way i've found.
 

TMSaxon

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Not according to Oxford Dictionary, but if you say so then I guess I'll have to believe you.

Like I said, I really don't feel like an etymological argument, but OED is not the only place to look. I literally (and yes, as in actually) watched a conference filled with linguistics professors debating this - most of the ones on the side of "no it isn't" tended to be the people that get uppity about contractions.

Sad news OP - if you do manage to make a triumphant comeback, will you continue to update this thread?