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Wolf52

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In regards to that naval battle, does anybody else find it weird that cruisers engaged the subs? They dont have any asw capability...

EDIT: I was thinking, it would be nice if there was a way you could make a half-strength garrison division, and make that the max strength. Suppressing partisans in a non urban small province may not need 10,000 men. Plus, as Germany that would be quite handy.
 
Last edited:

Tachikaze

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wolf52 said:
In regards to that naval battle, does anybody else find it weird that cruisers engaged the subs? They dont have any asw capability...

They were part of a taskforce including a CV and were attacked by subs, I can imagine the admiral (probably situated on the most modern ship, the carrier) panicking when hearing of submarines and ordering the cruisers to take immediate action... Well, they were French ships, weren't they? :p
 

GrimReaper

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Tachikaze said:
They can be strat. redeployed but not moved in any other way (if they are defeated in battle and forced to flee they will disband automatically). This is at least a plus in the whole "mess", since it means some flexibility after all.
Did you get garrison units over to UK? If so, how do you accomplish that when you move them other than with SR?
 

Tachikaze

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Spruce said:
so is pupeting more important now - to avoid over garrisoning

Thanks for reminding me! That's one thing I found very strange when I played the game, I couldn't find the "Puppet Regime" button! So now I have annexed Romania just because I thought I could get a cut of their oil (and some military relief when Barbarossa started) after I puppeted them... You can liberate nations but for some (very strange) reason, Romania just isn't in there. Though I can tell you that there otherwise are a lot of fun nations you can liberate if you really want to... ;)

Did you get garrison units over to UK? If so, how do you accomplish that when you move them other than with SR?

No, that I have not yet figured out how to accomplish, but then again since I now know that Garrison units aren't all they're cracked up to be, I'm not too disappointed... ;) Though I can really see how this would be a problem for Japan... :eek:
 

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BlkbrryTheGreat said:
What are the combat stats on Garison units? It would be interesting to know how useful they are for say- deploying on the beaches of France to prevent invasion.
Basic Garrison Division
Code:
morale -------- 30
defensiveness - 10
toughness ----- 2
softness ------- 100
suppression ---- 6
airdefence ----- 3
softattack ----- 5
hardattack ----- 1
airattack ------- 1
 

Peter Ebbesen

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Tachikaze said:
Well, I see your point and I agree that is realistic, though for game purposes it is kind of disappointing really. This I say because you know in most games that the function of the unit is usually tightly connected with its name (for example: anti-tank squad is good against tanks, carriers carry stuff (planes), etc.) while the Garrison unit... Well, if it isn't the best for its intended job and not terribly cheap in manpower (which is one of your most scarce resources as Germany) then why build it? The only function I see for it now is like I said earlier, amphibious invasion defence and perhaps garrison for urban and really hard to get to mountain provinces that are for some reason important.
The garrison unit is the single best unit in the game for garrisoning an occupied province, keeping the locals in check via a permanent military presence, and providing a speed bump. Moreover, it is extremely cheap to produce compared to any substitute and consumes less supplies (and hence both cost you less IC on a daily basis for production of supplies but also less TC for distributing of supplies). A garrison unit is not a front-line defensive unit able to take on all comers or defeat an invasion alone, but then, I doubt that is part of the definition of a garrison. (Though it must be said - even a single mid-war [i.e. not the '18 crap] garrison in a coastal province has excellent chances against a small non-Marine landing party due to the very substantial amphibious assault penalties). On the other hand, for Germany, with its surfeit of IC and comparatively (compared to your goals :D) low manpower, I can see why you are disinclined to build garrisons and would rather build infantry instead so long as your conquests remain fairly small, such that you can easily switch from defensive to offensive operations as your needs demand.

And then again, it must be stated that I am very biased on the topic of garrisons. Just like you are likely to hear Johan advocating airpower given the least opportunity, and more than a few beat the drums for panzers, and a couple of wanna-be admirals consider the navy to be the premiere force, I am the resident infantry proponent... My current personal record (not as Germany, admittedly) is 120 garrison divisions. 60 (the same resource cost) or 120 (the same manpower cost) infantry divisions would not fulfill their job half as well. :D

To answer another of your questions regarding garrisons, in order to move them to different land-masses (i.e. no direct SRD) you load them on to transports, sail to the land-mass in question braving the dangers of enemy navies on the high seas, and unload them (sea transport), then SRD them to whereever you want to go, just like with any other land unit.
 

unmerged(11633)

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Garrisons are done on a per province basis aren't they? Before I played the demo I had the vague idea they were done per region.

Also, in Johan's post on garrisons, one of the beta testers gave cavalry as a good unit for suppressing partisans and killing them if they rose up. Is cavalry good for anything at all?
 

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Gjerg Kastrioti said:
Also, in Johan's post on garrisons, one of the beta testers gave cavalry as a good unit for suppressing partisans and killing them if they rose up. Is cavalry good for anything at all?

Well partisan 'divisions' are militia, and a semimodern cav-div should be able to crush it. That is of course unless the uprising takes place in an urban or mountain-province...
 

Tachikaze

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Peter Ebbesen said:
And then again, it must be stated that I am very biased on the topic of garrisons. Just like you are likely to hear Johan advocating airpower given the least opportunity, and more than a few beat the drums for panzers, and a couple of wanna-be admirals consider the navy to be the premiere force, I am the resident infantry proponent... My current personal record (not as Germany, admittedly) is 120 garrison divisions. 60 (the same resource cost) or 120 (the same manpower cost) infantry divisions would not fulfill their job half as well. :D

But spending 1200 manpower on garrison units only seems like something only the USSR, Nationalist China or the USA can afford, so that's not really something I'm gonna try. For Germany, I'm personally gonna stick with infantry or cavalry (high supression value) units with police brigades from now on.

To answer another of your questions regarding garrisons, in order to move them to different land-masses (i.e. no direct SRD) you load them on to transports, sail to the land-mass in question braving the dangers of enemy navies on the high seas, and unload them (sea transport), then SRD them to whereever you want to go, just like with any other land unit.

Ok... 'Cause last time I tried to load a garrison division onto a transport it just wouldn't do it (I was playing as Japan in the Battle of the Coral Sea scenario). But, what the heck, I might as well give it a try... ;)
 

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Tachikaze said:
Ok... 'Cause last time I tried to load a garrison division onto a transport it just wouldn't do it (I was playing as Japan in the Battle of the Coral Sea scenario). But, what the heck, I might as well give it a try... ;)
Be aware: you can attach police brigades to infantry, but not cavalry (damn! :D).

One question: if the enemy bombs a province of yours, does the damage repair itself or do you have to place an order in the build queue?
 

unmerged(6600)

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wolf52 said:
In regards to that naval battle, does anybody else find it weird that cruisers engaged the subs? They dont have any asw capability...
The way I read it, the subs must have attacked at the surface and acted somewhat like torpedo boats. Subs often surface attacked at night in the real war, partly because they didn't have useful speed underwater (until the type XXI) and possible when enemy ships had no decent radar.

Presumably, several subs attacked more or less at the same time, confusing the surface fleet which failed to locate some of the attackers.

If this had been tried for real though, I think the surface ships would have nailed most attacking subs, who don't stand a chance against cruisers and destroyers on the surface. And if they managed to dive, the speed difference with the surface fleet would have become so big that no further atacks could have been made.
 

Wolf52

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Wouter said:
The way I read it, the subs must have attacked at the surface and acted somewhat like torpedo boats. Subs often surface attacked at night in the real war, partly because they didn't have useful speed underwater (until the type XXI) and possible when enemy ships had no decent radar.

Presumably, several subs attacked more or less at the same time, confusing the surface fleet which failed to locate some of the attackers.

If this had been tried for real though, I think the surface ships would have nailed most attacking subs, who don't stand a chance against cruisers and destroyers on the surface. And if they managed to dive, the speed difference with the surface fleet would have become so big that no further atacks could have been made.

Well also, all subs wouldnt have attacked at once, so the battle could last a much longer time. If each flotilla of subs has 5 subs in them, he had 20-25 in that battle. If they all attacked at once friendly fire and collision become a big risk.
 

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wolf52 said:
Well also, all subs wouldnt have attacked at once, so the battle could last a much longer time. If each flotilla of subs has 5 subs in them, he had 20-25 in that battle. If they all attacked at once friendly fire and collision become a big risk.
The problem is, I really can't see 20-25 subs all (or even most) finding the surface fleet. Sub "wolf packs" weren't sailing in close formation, they were somewhat spread out to have a greater chance at sighting and thus intercepting enemy ships. And a surface fleet wouldn't just wait for more subs to arrive, they would have moved out of the sub-infested waters at high speed (especially modern warships have much higher speeds than the slow transport convoys). Most subs of such a group simply wouldn't have a chance to engage, IMO.
 

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I have a question for you. Naval HQ's. Do they exist, and how do they work? Do you designate one ship to be the flagship, and by that you have the 24 unit cap? Or is it automatically included if you have an Admiral with sufficient rank in command?
 

Wolf52

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Imperator91 said:
I have a question for you. Naval HQ's. Do they exist, and how do they work? Do you designate one ship to be the flagship, and by that you have the 24 unit cap? Or is it automatically included if you have an Admiral with sufficient rank in command?

Thats a good question, I havent heard much about how naval stacking penalties will work.
 

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wolf52 said:
Thats a good question, I havent heard much about how naval stacking penalties will work.

I gather from the tech tree there is a new variable called "positioning", which is a range your naval units have. Better naval doctrine decreases its minimum value and increases its maximum.

My guess is that this will have some kind of effect, no idea what.
 

unmerged(11217)

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Hmmm, i would really like to know how the winter war went for finland and if your planing to help them regain their freedom/ lost territories? Or even help them get some more.

Btw, build more mechanized troops... youll need it when going for the oil in caucasus. And if i aint totaly wrong, you have a need for getting oil for your industry and troops in a few years.