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Mar 20, 2001
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I have made quite a few posts on this topic here and there, but I believe it will do no harm pointing them out in more coherent form in this forum.

1. Retreating
The single biggest problem with naval combat is IMO the possibility and truth to tell necessity of retreating from no-chance engagements. The best solution would be IMO incorporate speed into the naval combat distance and positioning model. A retreat order should not allow disengage fleet immediately, but only change the admiral priority for combat distance to 'as large as possible'. The real retreat would occur only after the distance exceeded the maximum range of fire of both fleets.
Important thing is that admiral quality, weather, thechnology and potentially ships speed should not determine the distance directly each hour, but should only determine the distance CHANGE over the hour of combat, making the maneuvering process far more realistic.
Also the initial distance of an engagement depending on weather, radar, intelligence, etc. would have significant effect on whether weaker force manage to withdraw in time.

2. Combat too fast - pause needed
A frequent complaint is that the combat is over too quickly, even before one can zoom on it and that pause is needed to make decision about its further proceeding/retreat. I think that great deal of this problem is caused by the necessity of player action in most combats. Whenever a fleet spots the enemy, combat commences and if the force composition is clearly unfavorable to one side, it must manually retreat to prevent casualties. But is it realistic? I think not. If a group of destroyers on ASW duty runs into the surface battlefleet should they close in to face almost certain destruction, or use their superior speed to get out of enemy range as fast as possible? I believe that the second option is more realistic and thus any force ill suited to combat the enemy should automatically TRY to retreat (if it manages according the paragraph 1)


3. Fleet concentration oversimplification
It was posted several times that it is mostly worthless to combine BBs and CVs in one taskforce. The reason is that in desirable case when the distance is just that of our CV range, BBs are worthless. I think that a relative easy remedy to this is allow multiple simultaneous naval combats in one seazone. Thus a CV squadron would hold its distance while BB squadron would close in. If many squadrons were present on both sides, distance should be tracked per combat.

4. Effect of speed
The speed of ships should decrease significantly if severely damaged as well as their visibility.
 
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horragoth said:
3. Fleet concentration oversimplification
It was posted several times that it is mostly worthless to combine BBs and CVs in one taskforce. The reason is that in desirable case when the distance is just that of our CV range, BBs are worthless. I think that a relative easy remedy to this is allow multiple simultaneous naval combats in one seazone. Thus a CV squadron would hold its distance while BB squadron would close in. If many squadrons were present on both sides, distance should be tracked per combat.
It is quite possible that this is much more complicated to code than the alternative solution I have suggested elsewhere. Not to mention that it makes it more difficult to coordinate your fleets if you have to split them into smaller units since they'll most likely have different speeds.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote.
 

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pmanlig said:
It is quite possible that this is much more complicated to code than the alternative solution I have suggested elsewhere. Not to mention that it makes it more difficult to coordinate your fleets if you have to split them into smaller units since they'll most likely have different speeds.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

If you mean this suggestion of yours it is definitely easier to code and would be far better than the current state is. My suggestion offer better flexibility IMHO, but I agree that it would add to the fleet management (which I would welcome :) )
 
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The important thing is that carrier fleets be treated differently that surface fleets. The whole job of a carrier fleet is to avoid surface combat range by miles, not yards, and their search planes give them the vision to make this a very easy goal to accomplish, not to mention the fact that carrier fleets are generally faster that surface fleets to begin with. But it's really the vision of the carrier fleet that makes it essentially impossible for a surface fleet to engage it. The carrier fleet has half-a-day's warning to begin moving away!

The root of the problem is that the screening ships of the carrier fleet participate in surface combat, when in reality they would be 50-100 miles away. This results in a requirement to include BBs and CAs, something that the Japanese can never hope to do against the US. The only thing preventing all players from seeing this clearly is the rediculous effectiveness of Naval Bombers. Try being Japan without building any Naval Bombers at all and you will very quickly come to understand the severity of the problem.
 
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I should add that when a carrier fleet is involved in combat with a fleet that does not include carriers, the carrier fleet gets to attack over and over again until sunset while the non-carrier fleet does not even get to shoot back. This is actually very important.
 

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horragoth,

good Ideas. On the speed of damaged ships, I would say "no", it is possible, that a ship is severely damaged, just before sinking, while the engine can still provide 100% speed. Speed reduction requires damage to the vital systems for movement.
And as far, as I know, was naval combat fast/short. So on longer naval combat, I would also say "no". Longer land combat is a big "yes". Longer air combat, would also be a big "no".
 

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Panther II said:
horragoth,

good Ideas. On the speed of damaged ships, I would say "no", it is possible, that a ship is severely damaged, just before sinking, while the engine can still provide 100% speed. Speed reduction requires damage to the vital systems for movement.

Speed of the ship is affected not only by the state of "engine". Unless the ideal smooth hull shape is preserved, the friction increse and speed drops. The same is true if a section must be flooded as it increases draught. IMO the speed loss was a most frquent symptom of damage even if the ship was far from sinking.