Feudalism simple fix, posted seperate so it's more clear (Please read devs!)

[ZeeHero]

Heres some easy ways to make feudalism and the civic for it more worth it.

Gates can be built in vassals territory, if the vassal gains independence the gates belong to them if they win.

Vassals now give half the taxes a tributary does (Without the feudal civic)

Feudalism civic in addition to the power relations now makes vassals pay the same amount in taxes a tributary would (and maybe give a bonus to tributary income so you have some reason to do that too)

Easy band aid at least, until the AI can be fixed.

Another idea is that instead of increasing vassal tax income the feudalism civic would make vassals give bonus fleet capacity and unity based on the size and economy/tech level/number of pops of the vassal.

 

[Nevars]

The ability to build gateway inside subject I can get behind but I think subject taxes whether economic or naval cap or unity I think is way too much in one civic.

So maybe the Dev could have create new tradition that focus on subject and have all those taxed inside this tradition.

 

[ZeeHero]

Not really. were talking about a completely awful civic. and my suggestion is that Vassals would without the civic give half taxes of a tributary, but with it EITHER give the full tax OR bonus unity and fleet capacity. it fits the feudal theme and makes it actualy viable to play that way. you're already hamstrung by the awful AI.

 

[Nevars]

Not really. were talking about a completely awful civic. and my suggestion is that Vassals would without the civic give half taxes of a tributary, but with it EITHER give the full tax OR bonus unity and fleet capacity. it fits the feudal theme and makes it actualy viable to play that way. you're already hamstrung by the awful AI.

That would only making tributary become useless, why bother with it when vassal also give tax but better in every other way.

If this really happen then I for one wouldn't use tributary ever again contrast to now that I use both of them depending on distance or whether I want the subject empire territory or not.

Subject play is fully serviceable right now, maybe a bit underpower but that wouldn't be solve by making one of them useless and the other one marginally improve.

Though Feudal civic is really suck right now and need a buff I can agree with that.

If I would have to buff it then I would make it increase your diplomatic weight from your loyal subjects or make them voting with your vote instead oh also maybe make it increase subjugation acceptance too I guess.

 

[ZeeHero]

Then maybe tributary needs to be changed or just removed? I don't see anyone reccomending that feature be used, even less than vassals in fact.

 

[Nevars]

Then maybe tributary needs to be changed or just removed? I don't see anyone reccomending that feature be used, even less than vassals in fact.

Uh what tributary is great when you don't want more territory, it's basically outsource your basic economy cuz each tributary has potential to net you between 100-300 energy and around 50 mineral give or take bypassing the insanity of managing it (important) or the need to mitigate admin cap (well this is small bonus tho cuz it's way too easy to do it).

Which enable you to simply focus your pops into producing complex resources (alloys and CG) or tech or unity.

And with federation making tributary acting like vassal in war too cuz they would be federation member but the downside is that you can't integrate them so you would have to choose carefully at the begining whether you would like this empire to be vassal (so you can integrate it) or tributary (for outsourcing basic resources to them).

*EDIT

I also in fact just recommend someone to use tributary swarms with hegemon federation yesterday iirc to someone who want to run subject play.

 

[guiskj]

Fixing vassals is simple. Make vassals keep the AI difficulty bonus.

Without this, your vassals will always lag behind other empires above Ensign difficulty, which makes them a constant liability.

 

[Casko]

How to Fix Feudal Civic in 5 simple(?) steps.

1) Make it possible to demand vassalize of all empires in the game. Regardless of their relative power, thus making it possible to use the Vassalize wargoal as an alternative way to conquer planets and regions. (This Might be OP to some, but this being limited to a specific civic would still make it niche)

2) Make Megacorps you vassalize be able to do trade on your planets. And Make Criminal Syndicates target your rivals with their unique trade companies.

3) Make it possible to form trade and research treaties with your vassals, so they don't fall behind SO HARD they do now.

4) make your Feudal Vassals be able to make claims in other Empires if they're Hostile towards their neighbors rather than merely claim unclaimed systems. And give their Overlord the King ability to use those Claims as wargoals. With Militant Vassals getting an opinion malus if you don't use them.

5) Make Vassals vote your way in Galactic Community.

 

[Franton]

Not really. were talking about a completely awful civic. and my suggestion is that Vassals would without the civic give half taxes of a tributary, but with it EITHER give the full tax OR bonus unity and fleet capacity. it fits the feudal theme and makes it actualy viable to play that way. you're already hamstrung by the awful AI.

And we're talking about an AI empire that doesn't get it's economics straight even without paying any taxes at all! If you want your vassals to be worth anything, milking their economy into bankruptcy is not the right way to do it!

 

[Nevars]

Make Megacorps you vassalize be able to do trade on your planets.

If you pull your subject into federation by subject allow law then they will also get the free commercial pact too so it sort of already is, just that you need to have federation.

 

[Serenity84]

There are some mods that add numerous kinds of vassals and tributaries. With different bonuses and rights. Depending on your ethics and/or your needs. I think that's a nice solution.

There is also one that models a feudal empire as a federation

 

[Casko]

If you pull your subject into federation by subject allow law then they will also get the free commercial pact too so it sort of already is, just that you need to have federation.

I am aware of this. But my point still stands. That its dumb they can't do it unless they're in an arbitrary federation.

 

[Bezborg]

If you ask me, feudalism as a civic should be reworked once the internal politics system gets reworked. If ever.

There should be some unique interactions possible, such as appointing their leader or confirming an election of their leader, etc... which would go hand in hand with some sort of "thickening" of the leader trait system.

 

[Casko]

There is also one that models a feudal empire as a federation

What mod might this be?

 

[sverlaind]

They should atleast return the ability for your vassals to expand on their own if you pick the civic.

 

[Zagreb 887]

What mod might this be?

You have the Expanded Vassals mod, and another I can't remember the name who rework Federations

 

[Serenity84]

What mod might this be?

Viable Feudalism and Imperialism - Empire Federation

 

[Bezborg]

Viable Feudalism and Imperialism - Empire Federation

How nice would it be if federations could evolve into a higher form of themselves.

Like a hegemony evolving into an empire and gets new goodies

 

[Casko]

Viable Feudalism and Imperialism - Empire Federation

Thank you very much.

How nice would it be if federations could evolve into a higher form of themselves.

Like a hegemony evolving into an empire and gets new goodies

or a Galactic Union integrating into a singular super state.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

It’s still in the planning stages but I’ve thought about fixing feudal empire thusly (considering I generally keep my mods vanilla and don’t create great big expansive additions):

Along with its current bonuses,
include a new subject type (like a dukedom or count)
This subject type has the same vassal rules as a subsidiary, only it can also be integrated into the empire. In addition it provides ‘xx’% of food, minerals and energy (was thinking around 10-20%, 20% might be a bit too much)
+1 leader pool size (to show the variety of vassals available to you.)

This would I feel make it at least a considered pick (though I’m welcome to suggestions)