Feudal theocracies and divine ideas.

[Charybde]

Here is a suggestion to consider both special emirate government types as theocratic monarchies, as they originally were theocracies in the game. The divine ideas group complements both very well and makes sense for them. Was this an oversight or was there a specific reason why it wasn't available for them?

 

[Dracupuncture]

definitely feels like an oversight.
on a serperate note, I would love to have a mzab run that doesn't end in me smashing my face into the keyboard from frustration

 

[iClipse]

definitely feels like an oversight.
on a serperate note, I would love to have a mzab run that doesn't end in me smashing my face into the keyboard from frustration

Hahaha. I know the feeling.

Still, Mzab is definitely possible to do well with without too much RNG. I formed Tunis as them for their missions, which gives easy access to West-Africa. Dotf can sometimes delay your conquest, still because of continent rules, you can ally the ottomans and smash the Mamluks with their help, which gets rid of the Dotf. Through there you can build up your powerbase and afterwards smash Portugal and Castile/Spain. Forming another nation doesn't prevent the 'an unlikely candidate' achievement. I suggest opening with Quantity ideas (if your mil tech is up to date at least) because about all your neighbors are bigger than you.

It was fun to start as a Feudal Theocracy. Definitely a great government form.

 

[Dracupuncture]

Hahaha. I know the feeling.

Still, Mzab is definitely possible to do well with without too much RNG. I formed Tunis as them for their missions, which gives easy access to West-Africa. Dotf can sometimes delay your conquest, still because of continent rules, you can ally the ottomans and smash the Mamluks with their help, which gets rid of the Dotf. Through there you can build up your powerbase and afterwards smash Portugal and Castile/Spain. Forming another nation doesn't prevent the 'an unlikely candidate' achievement. I suggest opening with Quantity ideas (if your mil tech is up to date at least) because about all your neighbors are bigger than you.

It was fun to start as a Feudal Theocracy. Definitely a great government form.

you could have lied and said it was all rng
my plan is something like mzab-->tunis-->al andalus, had two good runs a few updates ago but got wrecked going after castille lands. will certainly give another go, cheers for the tips mate!

 

[Livigy]

Might as well add 'the caliphate' to your list as it also adopts the feudal theocracy government upon passing that decision

 

[Sidolowka]

Here is a suggestion to consider both special emirate government types as theocratic monarchies, as they originally were theocracies in the game. The divine ideas group complements both very well and makes sense for them. Was this an oversight or was there a specific reason why it wasn't available for them?

Agree completely, and would like to note that the Rassids in Yemen and Mushasha in Iraq also start as Feudal Theocracies, don't forget about them.

 

[Charybde]

Thanks guys. Though a Mzab run is definitly easier then it's been in the past it's still very much luck dependent I think. Spain is a beast especially if they get the Iberian wedding early. It's a much more difficult start IMHO then Oman for the "third way achievement I think. Al andalus is western tech though so greater risk for greater reward.

definitely feels like an oversight.
on a serperate note, I would love to have a mzab run that doesn't end in me smashing my face into the keyboard from frustration

I think we can all relate here.

Agree completely, and would like to note that the Rassids in Yemen and Mushasha in Iraq also start as Feudal Theocracies, don't forget about them.

Might as well add 'the caliphate' to your list as it also adopts the feudal theocracy government upon passing that decision

Thanks for mentioning those, I did create a bug report as it definitely does feel like an oversight now. Hopefully we will see some form of change by the next patches or so. I mean considering Aajuran has access to both aristocratic and divine ideas, I think it justified that some countries feel a bit left out.


I would tend to agree that quantity is the way to go for smaller and poorer nations as you do need the manpower, cheaper troops and force limit to be able to compete especially on VH mode. However the trade off is that it doesn't make your troops fight better in any way and that's a high cost for a military idea. Let's face it having 20 or 40 force limit against VH spain won't make much of a difference. It does help against western africa minors though. Hence, I would be keen to try a run with divine ideas, as it includes elements of defensive, religious and quantity into one idea group.

 

[Tomray94]

Played Mzab very recently. Played it three times, first time was able to conquer Touggourt and part of Djerid but was crushed by Tunis, second time I conquered the whole interior and allied Tlemcen but was crushed by Tunis, third time I united the interior and found the opportunity to conquer some of Tlemcen in hopes of becoming large enough to take on Tunis, was declared on mid-war and crushed. Mameluks and Ottomans want nothing to do with me and Iberians see me as a heathen and also want nothing to do with me (Aragon is an exception but almost never independent to help me). Now I am not the best of players, so maybe that's why it happened, but I would have to agree that it is extremely frustrating.

 

[Charybde]

Played Mzab very recently. Played it three times, first time was able to conquer Touggourt and part of Djerid but was crushed by Tunis, second time I conquered the whole interior and allied Tlemcen but was crushed by Tunis, third time I united the found the interior and found the opportunity to conquer some of Tlemcen in hopes of becoming large enough to take on Tunis, was declared on mid-war and crushed. Mameluks and Ottomans want nothing to do with me and Iberians see me as a heathen and also want nothing to do with me (Aragon is an exception but almost never independent to help me). Now I am not the best of players, so maybe that's why it happened, but I would have to agree that it is extremely frustrating.

This is a bit off topic but in order to survive the initial stages you need royal marriages with tunis at the very least. To prevent them from attacking you. There was a time where this wasn't even possible but it's fairly easy to do now. Morroco can be a good ally as well but risky since they will get declared upon by the Iberians early and drag you into those wars. What I prefer doing nowdays is ally one of morroco's minors since they will ost likely ally Castille/Portugal in their plight for independance. That can prove useful later as the AI is more reluctant to go to war with a mutual ally. Most often Touggourt will end up allying Fezzan. If you rush to mil tech 4 you can take 1 and vassalize the other which will give a nice boost to your force limit. Djerid might also be around by that point and they can be your way around tclemcen allying the Ottomans since they often ally each other. If Aragon declares war on tunis they may be a tempting target but make sure you control the fort sieges and don't be left hanging when they peace out. Otherwise Tunis makes a very reliable ally, much more so than Morroco. With a bit of luck you've been able to grow at this point to get yourself a bit of coastline either via the tunis path or the tclemcen path. However be aware that if castille declares war with portugal or in a union. It's still game over at this point since you have nothing to stop them with. Hence build a fleet as fast as humanly possible. Growing is the name of the game here. That and allying the Ottomans. I would suggest that you get either diplomatic or influence ideas first as your forces are too small a significance to make a difference on their own, to justify a military idea group. West africa doesn't seem like much but if you form either tunis or morroco you'll have missions to colonize the desert for free bridging the gap and allowing you to expand in that direction. It should be said that when you from a new country, you briefly become "unknown" to other nations and their opinion of you resets, allowing you to make alliances you could not've before. Be wary of coalitions and make sure you have a truce with everyone but 3 nations you have AE with at all times. That way you can chain wars without them being able to coalition you. It's a bit tricky to get the hang of this at first but the payoffs are worth it. After you have either eaten most of western africa OR sucessfully ally the ottomans only then will you feel relatively safe and thinking about invading Iberia. I hope this helps if you want to give it another go. One last thing to note is that on VH mode an ally is preferable to you taking that land for yourself early since they get bonuses and fight harder for you that way. Choose your fights and you may yet prevail. I hope this helps if you plan on giving it another go at some point.