Feudal lord woes incoming from the new DLC

[KingJerkera]

When I first saw the announcement for the republic DLC I was pleasantly surprised and thought to myself ,"What a
brilliant new idea for some more interesting game-play." However after a period of time I realized that this DLC is not going to be kind to those who want to conquer the world or feudal lords in general.

This new DLC will increase the annoying power that is Genoa in all games (played a Aragon game once, Hammidid took out
Barcelona, then Genoa declared holy war took a majority of the land (little Lieda grabbed urgell and barcelona before Hammidid came in to finish off the duchy) with troops far superior to most mid-sized kingdoms (come on 8k stack in 1090!? with three provinces...) How is little Aragon supposed to deal with that sort of threat? (For those who absolutely want to know I was able to get it by allying with France getting the duchy to de-jure it into my small kingdom)).

Why on earth do the devs want to increase that power by letting them get coastal provinces with casi belli? Heck, the
pope is even in trouble due to the fact that Rome is a coastal province and don't get me started with poor Sicily. Then I thought to myself (This isn't as creepy as some of you are thinking, Self-think is actually quite helpful), "What doesthis do to the feudal lords in CK2?"

This is where the discussion/debate bit that I'm making this thread. How does this new DLC affect the Feudal lords of the CK2 universe? It hurts them as things stand as of now with what info there is. For all the sea coast small entities
(i.e. Ireland, wales, Denmark, all the Iberia countries, and Sicily) will be in danger of Genoa aggression (or even the other ones but I haven't seen them being much of a problem). Also if one makes a republic in ones kingdom he better be
prepared and plan it out carefully or else a lot or all of their coast provinces will fall to the republic due to
internal wars, eventually (Which is a big stability issue what with the fact that they have a big -20 modifier with
their relationship already, which will give any attempt of independence or faction more power to do as they please do tothe ease of recruiting the doge into their faction). And what do the feudal lords get to do in turn? A blockade war in
which only large entities (HRE, France, England, Norway(Depending on the first war)) can empty the republic treasuries. Why can't the smaller entities get on the who blockade war bandwagon? Due to the fact that republic can hire a ton of
mercs. Which means the rich can get richer and the poor will more than likely get poorer (Entity wise).

So as it stands the DLC will help blobing and reduce the ability of expansion for several entities down in the Mediterranean sea/ make it harder for them in a already hard to profit environment with the clash of religions in that area.
Therefore I'm asking that the devs take another look at how to make republics playable and yet make it not drag down th
development of the small feudal entities in the Mediterranean basin.

Ever since I'm of the opinion that it is bad form to simply complain and not be helpful here is my first suggestion to
help make game-play fun and yet not unbalanced for republics in general.

My suggestion is make them have the ability to declare casi belli of control of kingdom/empire held republics. This in
turn can be helped by a vassal system change were the highest power (King/Emperor) can control who is "offically" in
charge of the county/duchy. Those who are in charge get a prestige bonus and control the entire county/duchy for levies and such. Also the King/Emperor gets a bonus for those who are charge of a duchy/county. A levy bonus for feudal
leadership, a money bonus for doge leadership, and a piety/ +pope relationship for a prince-bishop. Hence each has a
bonus and a nerf for each appointment. I admit this suggestion is not historically accurate as far as I can remember in my brain and off the top of my head.

And lastly I wanted to validate why I making this thread due to some posters needing validation for any
complaints/worries . I've played approximately 100 hours of CK2 and have played as Aragon, Denmark, Sweden,
France, and lots of Poland. I admit I haven't quite gotten to the horde stage of the game and i'm currently playing a Denmark game to see the golden horde and the Aztec invaders.

Edit: sorry for long post and somewhat disjointed post will fix :Fixed sort of...

 

[unmerged(519337)]

Genoa already has that coastal province casus belli (as does every other merchant republic)

 

[KingJerkera]

Oh, really? Is that why they start conquering those small provinces south of the Papacy? I didn't know that . Sorry, but still I'm a bit worried that this DLC will benefit the powerful feudal lords over the weaker ones and Genoa will be a bigger pain for those trying to play in the Mediterranean basin.

Edit: fixing some disconnected words.

 

[Darkgamma]

They'll now be less motivated to roflstomp the world and more motivated to fatten their fat arses.

 

[Jeltz]

I think this DLC will make the republics less agreesive, especially against feudal lords. Instead they will fight eachother over trade posts, have internal struggles over which patrician family controls which trade posts, and who will become the next Doge. So I think this should mena more wars between Genoa and venice and less random Genoese attacks on small feudal rulers.

 

[unmerged(519337)]

They'll now be less motivated to roflstomp the world and more motivated to fatten their fat arses.

Yeah, I think this is the important part. The DLC is going to make Republics prioritise trade so there probably won't be much growth outside of trade posts and grabbing a few coastal provinces to boost trade.

On the subject of Genoa's blobbing. Why is it always them and never Venice that go wild with the coastal cb?

 

[Me_]

On the subject of Genoa's blobbing. Why is it always them and never Venice that go wild with the coastal cb?

Genoa is bigger, even though Venice is richer. The AI does not seem to consider it's ability to hire mercs properly, so Genoa ends up being more aggressive due to having two provinces.

 

[Talq]

Right now they have a CB on all coastal provinces. Even from what we know that will be changed to them first making a trade post, and then capturing a city (as they need a city to get the CB on the country), so it is more restricted, and genoa in particular shouldn't be so grabby early.

All that said, if paradox is doing its job right, they will become more active/aggressive, because they were precisely that over this period.

And if you've seen the amount of money the pope has by mid-game, you won't be worried about him.

 

[barny]

Just be happy, if they don't send a crusade your way.

 

[grumphie]

it willl actually decrease. currently, genao can just claim any county. with 1.09 they frist need to grab the city, and only then they can conquer the county.

@Me_
no, thats not the case. otherwise pisa would roflstomp everyone, and venice is still stronger than genoa troops wise(or at leats in my expierience). problem is the fact that genoa has weak coastal states all aorund it(mallorca, barcelona, sicily, independent toulouse and italians) while venice is being surrouned by the HRE, croatia and ERE. if italia DOES implode and theyre still around that time they can be uterly fearsome, claiming huge lands in italia and sometimes even smashing the HRE when its going really bad for them.

 

[liamgamer55]

I agree with the OP, there is the worrying trend that every DLC that focuses on something tends to make that thing overpowered (Muslims in Spain... or just Fatamids anywhere... and ere on average performing ahistorically well). I don't see why this DLC is going to be any different for Republics.

I think this DLC will make the republics less agreesive, especially against feudal lords. Instead they will fight eachother over trade posts, have internal struggles over which patrician family controls which trade posts, and who will become the next Doge. So I think this should mena more wars between Genoa and venice and less random Genoese attacks on small feudal rulers.

It seems a bit like that based on the info we have, hopefully that's the way it'll be. Some sortof nice balance.

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

@Me_
no, thats not the case. otherwise pisa would roflstomp everyone, and venice is still stronger than genoa troops wise(or at leats in my expierience). problem is the fact that genoa has weak coastal states all aorund it(mallorca, barcelona, sicily, independent toulouse and italians) while venice is being surrouned by the HRE, croatia and ERE. if italia DOES implode and theyre still around that time they can be uterly fearsome, claiming huge lands in italia and sometimes even smashing the HRE when its going really bad for them.

Which makes one wonder, why Pisa doesn't also blob like Genoa, given that they are not only three provinces over from them, but actually three provinces closer to the southern counties. And Venice itself is also two seazones away from those counties.

Distance modifier seems to be ruled out by Pisa... maybe it's the "two provinces" thing, but that Genoa has one demesne + one vassal while Pisa has two demesne which trips up the AI?

 

[Martinus]

Yeah, I think this is the important part. The DLC is going to make Republics prioritise trade so there probably won't be much growth outside of trade posts and grabbing a few coastal provinces to boost trade.

On the subject of Genoa's blobbing. Why is it always them and never Venice that go wild with the coastal cb?

Actually, in my recent game as England, it's 1250s and Venice controls the entire Kingdom of Sicily, half of North Africa, and some provinces in Occitania. It has also annexed Genoa.

 

[dragoon9105]

In my experience vassal republics are significantly less aggressive than Independent ones, it must be something in the AI's behavior most likely to represent the ruler not allowing a republic to gain too much power within the kingdom.

I've done a test, After taking Wales with William a decade after the conquest i gave two of its three duchies to a Mayor. With Ireland within spitting distance the Mayor made no move for the coastline despite his demesne being only 1. After annoying him so much that he declared independence (which i granted him) he immediately Declared war on the Ulster. Within 100 years he had formed the Ireland (why he didn't form Wales is beyond me). He'd gotten so strong he actually was in a position to start taking pieces of Scotland Britanny and Even Southern England/Normandy.

Also Venice is so Passive i think because its so rich, What will often happen is the doge will fill Venice with cities and then sit on the county for his entire life while Genoa is off grabbing land in Southern Italy, North Africa and Iberia. The only time ive seen Venice really actively expanding is if the Italian states win independence and Venice has its cities divided among mayors forcing the Doge to go to war with Tuscany, Acona or rarely Sicily if its been Balkanized.