Feudal King of Lombardy can't create Empire of Italia - EVER

[JohannSig]

Goal: As King of Lombardy, want to become Emperor so I can boss Pope around. Empire of Italia's de jure kingdoms are Kingdom of Lombardy (check) and Kingdom of Venice.

Action: Go conquer Venice

Problem: Can't create Kingdom of Venice because I'm Feudal and not a Republic. Having Venice as a Republic vassal doesn't help at all.

Verdict: Feudal lords are unable to create the de jure Empire of Italia during the Charlemagne period.

Workaround (annoying): Push the Byzantines out of Sicily and create both it and Croatia to form a custom one after mining 8000 prestige and 1000 gold.

[All gameplay add-ons (except SSI) active]

 

[Mafiabrett]

You don't need Venice unless its changed? You should just need Italy and Sicily, plus 1 more which i usually pick Croatia or Africa. Im guessing its related to Lombard culture? And Italy isn't being counted?

 

[JohannSig]

You don't need Venice unless its changed? You should just need Italy and Sicily, plus 1 more which i usually pick Croatia or Africa. Im guessing its related to Lombard culture? And Italy isn't being counted?

In the Early Middle Ages (Charlemagne start date) Sicily is de jure part of the Byzantine Empire, not the Empire of Italia, so that doesn't help. Being Lombard doesn't seem to have anything to do with it (I flipped to Italian pretty early on to try it).

 

[Serenity84]

Italia is a special case. Largely because it's ahistorical. It's not strictly a de jure empire. Yes, Sicily is de jure part of the Byzantine Empire. Because they've ruled it for ages (southern Italy was Greek even before the Roman Republic). But you also need it for Italia.

The tooltip is really badly written. It says you need two kingdoms, one of which isn't Italy or Sicily. That really means three (as usual), including those two.
If you start as a vassal of the HRE, one of the kingdoms around the alps is also a good option.

At least that's how it is in 1066. Haven't looked it at in Charlemagne

 

[Krisstina]

Empire of Italy always requires kingdom of Italy(or Lombardy) and kingdom of Sicily plus another kingdom title.Despite the de-jure of this empire still limited to kingdom of italy.
If as u said above, u have kingdom title of Lombardy + Sicily + Croatia in hands, u should be able to form empire of Italy by then.

 

[JohannSig]

Hmm so you're saying that once I can create Sicily it'll be made de jure part of Italia as a triggered event? And then I'll be able to form the de jure Empire of Italia? I'll give it a go and see what happens.

 

[Serenity84]

I think the Byzantines still have a claim on it. Why shouldn't they? But it will begin drifting into your empire. I did this in my last game starting as Tuscany in 1066, but I stopped about right when I got the empire (and then vassalized the Pope) because M&M came out the next day.

Not all titles in the game are de jure. I think that's where you're going wrong when thinking about this. There are also titular titles for some special things. The Empire of Italy is neither though. It's its own special and confusing thing.

 

[Krisstina]

Hmm so you're saying that once I can create Sicily it'll be made de jure part of Italia as a triggered event? And then I'll be able to form the de jure Empire of Italia? I'll give it a go and see what happens.

No, there is no event for the creation of this empire nor Sicily become part of Italy Empire, just the basic requirements to create the title. Kingdom of Sicily will continue to stay out until the dynamic de-jure shift kicks in. But u cannot creat Empire of Italy if u r not holding Kingdom of Sicily and Lombardy~ The 3rd kingdom is optional, u must have a 3rd kingdom, but it doesnt necessary to be landed.

 

[JohannSig]

So, the de jure Tooltip for Empire of Italia is just not telling the whole story by only saying that you need the Kingdom of Italy and Kingdom of Venice to create it?

 

[wildcat_paris]

You don't need Venice unless its changed? You should just need Italy and Sicily, plus 1 more which i usually pick Croatia or Africa. Im guessing its related to Lombard culture? And Italy isn't being counted?

with patch 2.7, Venise is now de jure of Italy, no longer of the Byzantum

 

[Krisstina]

So, the de jure Tooltip for Empire of Italia is just not telling the whole story by only saying that you need the Kingdom of Italy and Kingdom of Venice to create it?

The tooltip is correct and clear~I dont understand why u would confuse about it~

Usually u only need the de-jure part to create the title, but this empire needs more than that~

 

[name_here]

So, the de jure Tooltip for Empire of Italia is just not telling the whole story by only saying that you need the Kingdom of Italy and Kingdom of Venice to create it?

You need to hold 80% of the de jure territory, the kingdom of italy/lombardy, the kingdom of sicily, and at least one additional kingdom title.

 

[Serenity84]

The tooltip should say something like this:
* Kingdom of Lombardy/Italy
* Kingdom of Sicily
* One additional kingdom of choice

It's the last condition that's confusing

But as said, for empires you need to 80% of the counties. Not 51% as with lower titles

 

[JohannSig]

Confirmed! Created Sicily and Croatia and was then able to create Empire of Italia. Just didn't notice those special creation conditions in the tooltip

Also, vassalized pope via antipapal war.

Then I died and my 7 year old great-grandson inherited.

Boop.