Feudal Contracts feel unmaintainable and pointless.

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x4077

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I find Feudal Contracts to be just another part of the game that you can go out of your way to interact with if you want to, but they can also be totally ignored and don't really have a significant effect on gameplay.
Sure, until you acquire vassals with them through war or succession and end up with a council full of inappropriate people for the jobs. Unless you also consider that your council can be ignored and doesn't really have a significant effect on game play.

It's even more hard to ignore when you are a clan government and acquire these vassals that force themselves onto your council with a contract you don't even believe in nor would you realistically ever consider honoring.
 
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Feudal vassals are useless and only give headaches. Use republicans or theocratic vassals for actual significant contributions and way less time spent managing them.

I agree with the direction of your idea. Make it so that, for example, having taxes and levies on, say, low, will prevent vassals from joining or creating factions and I will set myself the contracts so from day one, their contributions are irrelevant anyway, because they have their own vassals with their own contracts, hooks etc.
I didn't know you could do this. Do you find somone owning a city barony and give them county titles to do this or is there some other method I've not heard of?
Having the contracts have some more indirect effect like faction join chance would be a really cool feature. If you had a vassal on no tax, minimum levies, title revocation protection they are essentially a completely autonomous entity within your realm, they would have to have so serious beef to settle if they wanted to start thinking about joining factions.

I was surprised to find out clan vassals can't negotiate religious rights or anything either. Religious protections just scream middle east and islam to me and yet I'm better off being a feudal if I want that safety.
Yeah, I had a great time as a clan last run, think I'm just going to go for a quick 20 minute adventure into Islam to take clan system rather than Feudal whenever I'm changing out of tribal in future. At least that's predictable.

There's a cool mod that lets you manage contracts en masse for all de jure titles under any title you have based on your realm authority. OneProudBavarian uses it in his latest series.

For vanilla I would suggest just limiting the number of vassals you have to minimize the headache. It does pay off to manage it though. It's often beneficial to trade taxes for less levies.
Oh I've been watching that series religiously, loving it. I looks like a good mod but I think that just sets defaults, vassals can still manage their contracts manually within that. Still it doesn't address the core issue I've raised and even if it did, I don't think the issue should be present in vanilla. (for clarity, the issue being the inbalance of the tiered parts of the contract with themselves and with the tickboxes).

I find Feudal Contracts to be just another part of the game that you can go out of your way to interact with if you want to, but they can also be totally ignored and don't really have a significant effect on gameplay.
Sure, this is true to some approximation (apart from the council rights option as another user has mentioned). However, it's a massive shame that that's the case, and even more of a shame when you realise that even if you did bother caring, the default contract is the best one anyway. Therefore you either ignore the system, or would prefer if it didn't exist, neither is a good look.
 

InsidiousMage

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I didn't know you could do this. Do you find somone owning a city barony and give them county titles to do this or is there some other method I've not heard of?
If you give an already landed Mayor a county they will stay a republic vassal even though they are now a county (or above). There is a new tradition (Republican Legacy I believe) that allows you to turn four feudal/clan counts into republic vassals.
 

AvengedK1ng

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I was surprised to find out clan vassals can't negotiate religious rights or anything either. Religious protections just scream middle east and islam to me and yet I'm better off being a feudal if I want that safety.
If non muslim you should be feudal and so have a feudal contract allowing religious rights
 
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Kerham

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I didn't know you could do this. Do you find somone owning a city barony and give them county titles to do this or is there some other method I've not heard of?
ould prefer if it didn't exist, neither is a good look.


If you give an already landed Mayor a county they will stay a republic vassal even though they are now a county (or above). There is a new tradition (Republican Legacy I believe) that allows you to turn four feudal/clan counts into republic vassals.

Yes, that's how I do it. In regards to Republican Legacy, you have 4 slots for counts which can be turned into republican vassals. If you already have republican vassals, they will be filling those slots, so at more than 4 lord mayors already existing, you can't turn counts anymore if that's when you adopt the tradition. I guess you can move further by compacting lord mayors under a grand mayor (duke), respectively under a serene doge (king) if your realm size allows you so. I just take that tradition for the bonuses themselves and for access to pike columns.


By the way, in same manner you can create theocratic vassals. When you conquer a county, day 1 without unpausing, temples will be assigned to some "bishops". If you grant them a county they become theocratic vassals, like the prince bishops you can find in Europe. Their particularity is that they give contributions per your devotion level, so you must really pump up the piety growth. You can also get theocratic vassals through an event in Royal Court. When you have a large personal domain, three jealous courtiers will comment that and you have the option to assign it to one of them or ignore them. One of them will be a priest, so after giving him a barony you can then grant a county (I think, haven't tried, just noticed the possibility).
 
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I don't ever use feudal contracts. I don't think the way they currently work makes much sense, and they are really bothersome to work with.

The only time where I use them is if I play as a vassal myself, and then its only my own contract I care about.
 
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Toybasher

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One thing that annoys me is when I get someone with like 30 in a stat, so I hire them as a councilor and set them to council rights guaranteed so I can bump taxes up one notch*, then they die of natural causes, and I forget to edit the contract to undo the changes, and the heir shoves himself onto my council with "They can't be fired for 25 years" and they have garbage stats.

Makes me wish there was some sort of "This contract is valid only for this character and will reset to default upon succession" option. Because I forget and once you realize what just happened it's too late. Turning off Council Rights Guaranteed doesn't cancel the 25 year "You can't fire them" lockout.

*I also sometimes do this with powerful vassals with decent but not the absolute best stats.
 
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Grand Admiral Edward

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One thing that annoys me is when I get someone with like 30 in a stat, so I hire them as a councilor and set them to council rights guaranteed so I can bump taxes up one notch*, then they die of natural causes, and I forget to edit the contract to undo the changes, and the heir shoves himself onto my council with "They can't be fired for 25 years" and they have garbage stats.

Makes me wish there was some sort of "This contract is valid only for this character and will reset to default upon succession" option. Because I forget and once you realize what just happened it's too late. Turning off Council Rights Guaranteed doesn't cancel the 25 year "You can't fire them" lockout.

*I also sometimes do this with powerful vassals with decent but not the absolute best stats.
Why bother with Council Rights then? It's YOUR council, so you can appoint who YOU want (I don't think the AI will ever refuse to join the council if offered, just like an AI ally won't OFFER to join a war). So if he quits or has to leave for some reason, why not just reappoint him when he becomes available? And even with Council Rights, he might not take the one he's be best in (you could, and I've seen it, have a 25 Diplomacy 5 Intrigue character choose to be my spymaster).
 
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Jarolleon

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I've never had a problem with contracts, for the simple reason I'd rather have 10,000 Tyranny than a vassal having a weak hook on me. Why? If they have a weak hook on me, that means I have go on a murder spree, because the uncouth idiot with 0 diplomacy (not to worry, all the rest of his stats are equally bad or worse) would force my 20+ master diplomat out of my council. A guy who would add 2+2 and get 22 would chose to become my steward (meaning I start to have to PAY my vassals). The leader of the Charge of the Light Brigade has better leadership qualities than the vassal who forced me to let them be my marshal. I'm surprised that an inbred, hideous, Imbecilic, feeble, infertile, weak, and dull character doesn't use a weak hook to become my wife, so she could have that council position.
Have you considered that the reason your vassals have such pathetic traits is that you tyrannically murdered everyone who was capable of challenging you?

More seriously that is annoying as hell, and it's always some count who used to be the vassal of one of my revolting dukes and somehow transferred that prerogative from his duchy to my entire empire, rather than anyone who actually got a hook on me.
 

Grand Admiral Edward

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Have you considered that the reason your vassals have such pathetic traits is that you tyrannically murdered everyone who was capable of challenging you?

More seriously that is annoying as hell, and it's always some count who used to be the vassal of one of my revolting dukes and somehow transferred that prerogative from his duchy to my entire empire, rather than anyone who actually got a hook on me.
CK3 may be an incestuous murder-simulator, but for me, murder is a last resort. I don't murder without a VERY good reason, and using a hook or your Council Rights contract to get on my council when you aren't qualified is about the only reason for murder. For me, it doesn't matter if you're a powerful vassal, if you aren't qualified to be on my council, (again, meaning 15+ in the stat), you aren't getting on my council.
 

prismaticmarcus

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For me, it doesn't matter if you're a powerful vassal, if you aren't qualified to be on my council, (again, meaning 15+ in the stat), you aren't getting on my council.
i'm not saying you're wrong but it looks to me like being a powerful vassal is what qualifies you to be on the council. that's certainly how the powerful vassals see it. it's then just a matter of shuffling people into the best jobs.
 
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Toybasher

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Why bother with Council Rights then? It's YOUR council, so you can appoint who YOU want (I don't think the AI will ever refuse to join the council if offered, just like an AI ally won't OFFER to join a war). So if he quits or has to leave for some reason, why not just reappoint him when he becomes available? And even with Council Rights, he might not take the one he's be best in (you could, and I've seen it, have a 25 Diplomacy 5 Intrigue character choose to be my spymaster).
I do Council Rights Guaranteed so I can bump taxes up. Basically I have someone already on the council, and I don't plan to replace them as long as they're alive due to their stats or powerful vassal status, so why not give them the concession so I can raise taxes? Their council rights are guaranteed because there's no suitable replacement, basically.

The problem is just I'm lazy/forgetful and when doing this you have to stay on top everyone to make sure you switch off council rights guaranteed once that particular vassal dies, as otherwise their successor can force themselves onto the council.
 
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AvengedK1ng

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I do Council Rights Guaranteed so I can bump taxes up. Basically I have someone already on the council, and I don't plan to replace them as long as they're alive due to their stats or powerful vassal status, so why not give them the concession so I can raise taxes? Their council rights are guaranteed because there's no suitable replacement, basically.

The problem is just I'm lazy/forgetful and when doing this you have to stay on top everyone to make sure you switch off council rights guaranteed once that particular vassal dies, as otherwise their successor can force themselves onto the council.
Why not just give them war declaration powers?
 
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Grand Admiral Edward

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i'm not saying you're wrong but it looks to me like being a powerful vassal is what qualifies you to be on the council. that's certainly how the powerful vassals see it. it's then just a matter of shuffling people into the best jobs.
You maybe a powerful vassal, but if you can't do your job, then you don't get it. what's really irritating in my current play through, something like 4 of the 5 powerful vassals in my empire would be REALLY good Marshals, but since I can only have one, I appoint the best, and let the others stew (of course, even with that "desires council position, I STILL have a 100 opinion level with them- and in fact, it would take probably another -300 opinion malus to even dent the 100 opinion).
 

junassa

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I'll be honest: I never really worry about contracts. Every once in awhile I'm stuck with someone with horrible stats on the council but late game it hardly seems to matter.
 
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