Feudal contract clause "Force highest available crown authority" and "forbid title laws"

[logros13]

The fact that both the prohibition on war and the inheritance of titles outside the realm can be circumvented if you vassals have lower crown authority than you and the fact that your vassals themselves can avoid forced partition with title laws feels... wrong.

If these what i would argue to be an exploits are not going to be patched out entirely then there should really be a way to force our vassals to obey the laws, afterall what's even the point of having "laws" if our vassals can flaunt them at will?

The second one (forced partition) in particular really feels more like a bug that should be fixed, but i can see the argument for making the crown authority thing a contract obligation.

 

[blackfalcon1324]

I agree, just in general, I think you should have some power over your sub vassles. I mean the idea that a count isnt under the authority of the king because someone is inbetween them... I think that should be maybe included on one of the crown authority levels.

 

[Tuo]

While I like the idea on the perspective of being the liege - what do you do as a vassal if your direct liege is forced by his or her liege to enforce a higher crown authority than you'd like? This could completely break playing as a vassal of a vassal, as you could end up in a situation where you can't wage wars to gain more power and you can't faction to lower the crown authority so that you'd be able to wage those wars.

 

[logros13]

While I like the idea on the perspective of being the liege - what do you do as a vassal if your direct liege is forced by his or her liege to enforce a higher crown authority than you'd like? This could completely break playing as a vassal of a vassal, as you could end up in a situation where you can't wage wars to gain more power and you can't faction to lower the crown authority so that you'd be able to wage those wars.

Hmm, that is indeed something of a tricky question...

One idea that comes to mind would be to let the lower vassals force their liege to change crown authority but then make the middle liege a criminal for breaking their contract giving the top liege an imprisonment and title revocation reason.

Edit: you could also independence/top title war against your liege to become a direct vassal of the top liege since as far as i know high crown authority does not block wars against your liege.

Edit2: you could also get a hook on your liege (through fabrication if he has not committed any actual crimes) and wage war as usual that way. So on second thought there are plenty of ways around the issue.

 

[Dman1791]

I'd prefer for crown authority to only be set at the top liege level rather than making it a title law. That prevents the situation of having a liege that's forced into L3/L4 crown authority that you can't change, by allowing you to bypass it with a hook on your top liege. That, and maybe allowing strong hooks to force your liege into a liberty faction or something.

 

[Kzimmmy2002]

They should simply make it were all Vassals higher than barnon, whether direct vassels or sub Vassles can join faction.

 

[Blk82]

They should simply make it were all Vassals higher than barnon, whether direct vassels or sub Vassles can join faction.

Allowing sub-vassals to join factions would increase the potential size of factions by a factor of two or three. Also, it violate the game's principle of liege lords: basically a vassal is subject to his direct liege and no one else. Violating the principle would raise a whole host of questions. Such as, if a vassal count does not join a faction, but his duke liege does, would he still send levies and taxes when the duke is revolting against a king? Likewise, could a count declare direct independence from his top liege?

While the principle that "the vassal of my vassal is not my subject" is not historically correct, it is internally consistent.