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Aug 23, 2014
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Hey there,

The following maps list a number of oddities that probably need some fixing. The province-density of the upcoming update is really good, so I won't necessarily suggest new provinces, nor will I talk too much about the addition of other tags. This suggestion is really more about geography and the correct naming of cities/provinces. Some of the maps have been posted in other threads, but most of it is new. The descriptions are quite important, as some of them explain certain drawings I made (so, for context). As always, the red dots indicate proper city-locations.

Without further addo:

1: Hoya's location should be moved and its borders slightly tweaked.
2: The Elbe-estuary is quite broad, broader than it should be. It seems as if the sea starts at Hamburg, which isn't the case. A minor thing, but still.
3: Schleswig was a part of the HRE, that's why I counted it for this region. Its city-location is way off.
4: Lüneburg should be closer to the river and its borders slightly tweaked.
5: Celle should be beneath the Aller-river and more to the west.
6: Wismar is a coastal city.
7: Neubrandenburg (as I've noticed you guys changed the name from Stargard, which is a very welcome change) should be on the border of the province, so a slight tweak might be necessary.
8: Altmark's borders should be changed so that its capital, Stendal, can be tweaked.
9: Ruppin should be moved slightly.
10: Sternberg's current capital is its namesake; Sternberg. This was a very small administrative village during most of EU4's timeframe, an actual city of economic and bureaucratic importance was Frankfurt an der Oder. I suggest changing the capital to this town. The province-name itself is fine; as Sternberg was a county.
11: Goslar's location isn't within the province itself.
12: Halle should be on the other side of the river.
13: Dessau should be moved to the river-junction. This is not of huge importance.
14: Wittenberg should be at the border; it was quite close to Dessau.
15: Zwickau should be moved to the other side of the river. Its borders should preferably
16: Cottbus should be more to the south.
17: Görlitz should be on the other side of the river.

1: Kleves/Kleef should be closer to the Dutch border and more to the north-west.
2: Düsseldorf should be at the river, this might mean that the province needs a slight border-fix.
3: Köln should be moved to the south, beneath Düsseldorf.
4: Koblenz should be between the two rivers.
5: Arnsberg should be slightly moved, this is of minor importance, though.
6: I've noticed that Nassau's capital (Wiesbaden) has already been placed around the border to the south in recent developer-diaries, but it should be even further south; (almost) at the river. This means a slight border tweak which will make the Mainz-province slightly smaller in the north.
7: Slight tweak to Kessel's location. Is of minor importance, though.
8: Slightly tweaked Plauen's location.
9: Slightly tweaked Bayreuth's location.
Disclaimer: Bohemia's map (and that of Silesia as well) is quite distorted because of the rivers and the borders, which aren't very correct. For example, parts of Hungary and Austria should actuall be parts of southern Bohemia. This results in the locations being a bit close to each other, which is understandable and I won't touch upon this in this thread. The Kleinstaaterei-thread actually uses correct locations for Bohemia. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...staaterei-the-great-hre-map-revision.1156003/ The new provinces added in Bohemia aren't proper historical options, as well. I will discuss this here below and the thread linked here above talks about it, as well.
10: Litomerice, the orange dot, shouldn't be the capital of this province. Zatec (red dot) should be it; it was far more important during most of EU4. This also means that the province-name needs to change (to Zatecko).
11: Minor tweak, but Hradec Králové should be at the river.
12: Pardubice (orange dot) wasn't all that important during most of EU4, it only rose up during the industrial age. I suggest changing the province name to Caslavsko and city-name to Kutná Horá (red dot). While Kutná Horá wasn't the provincial capital of this administrative entity (Caslav was), Kutná Horá was much more important. Prague wasn't a capital of an administrative unit, either. If this is not acceptable, then I suggest naming both the city and the province Kutná Horá. Either way, Pardubice is quite wrong for EU4. It was basically a small village.
13: I'd suggest changing the province-name to Jihlava (red dot) or deleting the province altogether, as it would be quite small. Jindrichuv Hradec (orange dot) was like Ostrava and Pardubice; small and not noteworthy enough until the end of the 18th century.
14: Budejovice should be around the other side of the river.
15: Slightly tweaked Brno's location; this is of very, very minor importance though.
16: Slightly tweaked Olmütz's location.
17: Opava (red dot) should be the province-name, not Ostrava (orange dot). Ostrava only grew during the industrial age.
18: Moved Glogau's location to the east.
19: Slightly moved Liegnitz's location, quite minor, though.
20: Moved Opole a bit, as well as the river (the blue line is just a draft, but the river is quite flawed).
21: Ratibor should be moved quite a bit and be on the other side of the river.
22: The current capital of the province is Marburg, but Marburg is located at the green dot. The black dot actually indicates Gießen, which is also a good option. I would personally keep Marburg and move the city to the green dot.

1: The town of Worms should be moved to the river.
2: The town of Heidelberg should be much closer to the riverjunction.
3: Aschaffenburg's city should be moved to the north-west.
4: Minor change to Wurzburg and the river there.
5: Rothenburg should be moved and its border extended. EDIT: This has been fixed.
6: Nürnberg should be moved a little to the south-west.
7: Amberg should be moved alittle to the south.
8 and 9: Baden is actually located in the new Durlach province (around contemporary Karlsruhe). Fixing the borders and city-locations would result in such a small Durlach-province that I'd just merge the two like before: Baden with the capital of Baden.
10: Stuttgart should be moved a little, not sure if this was done already, but I did see that the province-name was changed from Wurttemberg to Stuttgart, which is good.
11: Reutlingen should be moved to the river, thus needing a border-change for the Urach-province. Also, I think the Urach-province should be renamed to Reutlingen, as Reutlingen wasn't a part of the Uracher Teil. 'We can also make Urach the capital!' Nope, Urach only had 1800 or so inhabitants in the 15th century, while Reutlingen had around 5000. Reutlingen should still be the capital, in my opinion. But also the province-name.
12: Ingolstadt should be above the river. EDIT: This has been fixed, thanks!
13: Landshuit should be above the river.
14: Already has been fixed! It's now called Wasserburg and under control of the correct Bavarian duchy.
1̶5̶:̶ ̶M̶e̶m̶m̶i̶n̶g̶e̶n̶ ̶s̶h̶o̶u̶l̶d̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶v̶e̶d̶.̶ (edit: after a quick check, this one seems to be quite fine)
16: Mülhausen (1) is not within the province, but located in the Sundgau-province. Changing the borders doesn't need to happen, though. Why not? Well, Mülhausen was one of the smaller cities comprising the Dekapolis; it had around 1800 inhabitants during the 15th century and joined the Swiss Confederacy later on. A good alternative would be (2): Schletstadt; it had 5000 to 6000 inhabitants and it was also the place where the meetings between the members of the Dekapolis were held. So, I suggest renaming the province as well as the city to Schletstadt.
17: Altkirch isn't located to the west, but to the east. Its borders should be adjusted to make them more historical.
18: Zürich should be moved a little.
19: Schwyz's location should be moved to the north and its borders slightly adjusted.

We haven't seen the cities on the map yet for the new Pomeranian setup, so the black dots indicate the rough location of where the towns should be. Stolp was a bit harder to place, but it needs to be very close to that dot if I haven't placed it correctly. The Neumark still has some flaws, though.
1: Landsberg should be really close to the river there. Seeing as Dramburg was a part of the Neumark as well, I don't think Neumark, as province-name, is still necessary. Landsberg would be better. The area of Neumark is simply bigger than just the province. The border-changes would also make Stargard a bit bulkier, which is historically correct.
2: Dramburg should be moved a bit and its borders adjusted.

1: Moved the town/stronghold of Saluzzo to its correct location (might not be possible because of the mountains, but still listed).
2: The town of Montferrat (Casale Monferrato) should be moved to its correct location.
3: Very minor, but Novara could be moved a bit, isn't really that necessary though.
4: Pavia is not the same as Alessandria. It should be moved it to its correct location, but that's currently in the Cremona-province. Provinces need a different shape to accomodate this change.
5: Cremona is actually located in the Mantova-province, so it should be moved. Both provinces need to get an overhaul in terms of shape.
6: Slightly moved Bergamo, might not be possible because of the mountains, though.
7: Venice has been fixed in the latest ddiaries, its shape as well. Thank you!
8: Udine (capital of Friuli) was far more inland, it should be moved to its correct location.
9: Görz/Gorizia is way off; will mention this in more detail in the Austria-section.
10: I guess Pula/Pola is the new capital for Istria; so I moved it to its correct location. Triëst should also have a very different shape, but I will go into more detail about this in the Austria-section.
11: The current capital of Bastia (Corsica) is way off, on the other side of the island, even.
12: Pisa is not located within its province. The river should be changed a little, as it runs to the south of Pisa. Quite a necessary fix; I don't think it's acceptable to have cities in whole different provinces.
13: Siena wasn't a coastal town, but far more inland. This really needs fixing.
14: Urbino (the town) could use a slight relocation, it was kind of hard to pinpoint its location exactly, but it should be slightly beneath Firenze and more to the east.
15: Ancona was a coastal town; it definitely needs to move. The only province left in Italy that could really use a split, though. But alas.
16: Perugia needs to be placed on the other side of the river, then it's also on the correct side of Rome. There being a Perugia-tag now as a vassal for the Papal States is also a very welcome change and slightly makes up for the decision to make Bologna independent.
17: Spoleto is way off; it's barely within its own province. I suggest taking a small piece from Perugia, just in case.
18: The capital of Abruzzi (L'Aquila) is in the correct location in the current version of EU4, but this map-update places it way too far to the east. A small bit of Spoleto should be chipped away for a more aesthetically/historically pleasing Abruzzi and the capital moved to the correct location. The name of L'Aquila should also be Aquila, as L'Aquila came into existence because of Mussolini and thus is anachronistic.

1: Campobasso (the presumed capital for Molise) should be moved a little bit.
2: The new province of Avellino is like the Lleida of this new Italy-update; the town is not within the confines of the province. The green dot indicates the location of Benevento, but I understand why it wasn't chosen. The borders of this province need to change, though, if Avellino is to be fully included.
3: Bari's a coastal town and should be more to the east.
4: Slightly moved the city of Syracuse, minor change.
5: Slightly moved the city of Palermo, minor change.
6: Trapani is a coastal town and more to the north than shownn at the moment.
7: Moved Sassari to its correct location near the coast.
8: Oristano (the presumed capital for Arborea) is located in the wrong location, I moved its position more to the coast.
9: Cagliari is a coastal town, so moved it to its correct position.
10: Terracina is a wrong name for the province. The province seems to represent Campagna et Marittima, a province of the Papal states. With the capital of Ferentino and then Frosinone, the latter which seems to be the capital for the EU4-province (although they're geographically very close to each other). I suggest changing the name of the province to Campagna. Terracina itself was just a small fishing village on the coast and presumably not even the capital.

1: Its capital is currently Brest, but it's roughly in the location of Quimper. It can go either way; or change the capital- and province-name to Quimper or change the capital- and province-name to Brest and move it to the correct location. Finistere is anachronistic in any case.
2: Vannes should be moved to the correct location.
3: Armor is an anachronistic name, the capital is currently Saint-Malo; this name fits for the province, as well. The location of Saint-Malo (the town) needs to be adjusted, too.
4: The capital (Angers, which is in the Maine-province) should be moved to the correct bank of the river, as the current capital is in the location of Saumur. A different city altogether.
5: The capital of Le Mans should be moved more to the north.
6: The city of Rouen should be moved and the province should be renamed to Rouen, as well. The Pays de Caux was a geographical entity excluding a big part of the Caux-province and Rouen.
7: The capital should be moved way inland; Amiens is not coastal by any means.
8: The capital, Arras, should be way to the south-east.
9: The capital, Rethel, should be on the correct bank of the river.
10: Soisson should be in the correct position above the river and in the current Reims-province. The current capital is in the position of Compiegne, not Soissons.
11: The city of Poitiers should be moved more to the north, preferably cutting a small bit from Anjou.
12: Bourges should be moved quite a bit.
13: The capital of Chartres should be a little bit more to the north-east.
14: Nemours' city should be moved to the riverjunction.
15: Auxerrois currently has the fortress of Semur as capital, but it should have Auxerre as capital; the city it was named after in the first place and far more important (as well as its capital). This means some borders have to be adjusted.
16: Verdun should be to the east of Bar-le-Duc, this might also mean that the river has to be adjusted to make this possible, as Verdun was still on the west bank of the river.
17: Metz should be on the side of the river, the province should also be renamed from Trois-Evechés to just Metz, as two out of the three 'Evechés' (bishoprics), Verdun being one of them, weren't even located within the province.
18: Besancon should be moved a little to the east. Seeing as Franche-Comté has been split, this also means that the province-name needs a change, as Salins is just as much Franche-Comté as Besancon. I'd suggest to change it to the capital.
19: Salins should be quite a bit further to the north.
20: Charolais' capital, Charolles, should be way to the south.
21: Gueret, La Marche's capital, should be moved and the province reshaped; its general location is just off. Like Limoges.
22: The capital of Limoges should be above that river and the province reshaped, as mentioned above.
23: Lyon should be on the correct bank of the river, at the junction.
24: Rodez should be more to the west.
25: Forcalquier needs to move quite a bit; it's still in the position of Draguignan.
26: Moved the capital of Toulouse to the correct bank of the river.
27: Moved the capital of Foix to the bank of the river.

1: It seems Anessi is called Bresse now, which is good. The capital (which is presumably Bourg-en-Bresse then) should be moved to the red dot, thoug, as it's currently in the position of Belley.
2: Geneva is quite fine at the moment, I guess it borders the lake somewhat. Minor detail.

1: Zeeland's capital, Middelburg, should be moved and the province itself should honestly be a couple of islands (like Naxos) with the mainland part (county of Bergen op Zoom) being given to Breda, like it was in history.
2: The capital of Breda should be moved to its correct location on the border between Breda and Zeeland. So, some border-adjustments need to be made.
3: 's Hertogenbosch's city should be moved to the correct location within the province of Breda and its borders adjusted.
4: Antwerpen should be closer to the mouth of the river Schelde.
5: Brabant should be renamed to Brussel, as Breda, 's Hertogenbosch, Antwerpen and Brussels were all part of the entity called Brabant.
6: Loon's capital should be slightly moved and it should be renamed to Hasselt; its economic capital.
7: The capital of Luik/Liege should be moved to the correct position at the riverjunction.
8: The capital of Vlaanderen (Brugge) should be moved and the province should be renamed to Brugge, as Vlaanderen was bigger than just that province and also included Gent and Rysel.
9: Roermond should be moved to the correct location on the river Maas.

1: Silistre(Tur.)/Silistra(Bul.) should be moved, the borders have to be adjusted as well. The current location of the town is in the location of Constanta (which luckily didn't get added as a separate province).
2: Kirkkilise isn't located there, but in the Edirne province. Burgas is seemingly still the capital, which is wrong. If you guys don't mind a Byzantine-province, call it Mesembria and give it #1 as capital (Nesebar/Mesembria) or call it Sozopol and give it #2 as capital, no border-changes needed. If you guys want it to stay Ottoman, then move the capital to either #3 (Islimiye, border-changes needed to the west) or to #4 (Varna, border-changes needed to the north). I'd personally go for Varna. But, again, the province needs to be edited as it's very flawed.
3: Filibe/Plovdiv should be moved a bit and be beneath the river. It's roughly above the island of Thasos.
4: Sofya should be a bit more to the south-east.
5: Trikala/Tirhala should be the capital of its namesake province; It wasn't a coastal town.
6: Glarentza is currently the capital, but in the wrong location. Funfact: It doesn't exist anymore nowadays.
7: Mystras should be the capital of Morea, not Nafplio. The latter was a Venetian city. Also, both Achaea and Morea could use a namechange, as Achaea and Morea refer to the same peninsula.
8: Vidin should be at a different riverbend. Also; riverbends are kind of wonky, but that's minor at best. The city-location of Vidin is a bigger issue in this case.
9 and 10: Kostendil should be Köstendil and Gumulcine should be Gümülcine.

I've spoken quite a bit with @otaats and we both worked on some Balkan-suggestions, some of his work is shown in this suggestion and other parts (especially city-locations) are things I looked up myself. I hope this is a satisfying list of feedback for your region, my friend!

1: Zadar is a coastal city; it should be moved a little. A very minor issue, though.
2: Bosnia/Bosna refers to the river that flows through some of the Bosnian provinces, there are better alternatives. The best one is calling the province Usora. CK2 did the same thing, as well. Doboj, the capital, is in roughly in the middle of the historical region of Usora.
3: Visoki was the name of the fortress that quickly got abandoned a few decades after EU4's beginning, the town beneath was called Visoko and stayed important, also during Ottoman rule. I suggest changing the province-name to Visoko, instead of Visoki.
4: The capital of the 'Herceg' and of Hercegovina ('Land of the Herceg (=duke)') was located at the coast; Herceg Novi (the red dot). Also, it's Hercegovina in Serbian, not Herzegovina. So, the province-name needs a small adjustment as well. The port was quite important and even the Spanish controlled it for a little while.
5: The fortress of Bács should be moved close to the river. This part of the Hungarian kingdom had a lot of Serbian influences, that's why I encompassed it within this suggestion.
6: Mitrovica should be more to the west.
7: Smederevo should be the capital of Serbia; Brankovic just moved in here.
8: Branicevo's capital (Krusevac) isn't located in the current province. Its borders and city-location need to be adjusted.
9: All three of Zeta's capital-choices are (nearly) outside the province. Its current capital is Zabljak, not the big modern city to the north of Montenegro, but Zabljak Crnojevica, a fortress-town. This was fortress was only the capital until 1482, though. #2 indicates the correct location of this town. The bishopric of Cetinje (#1) became the capital of the Prince-Bishopric of Montenegro after the Ottomans had conquered parts of Zeta, they were a thorn in the sides of the Ottomans and de-facto independent most of the times. Zabljak was under steady Ottoman control, that's why Cetinje might be a better alternative. The last option is #3 Podgorica, the most important city and the capital nowadays, but probably a bit too contemporary for the game. This makes Cetinje a really good candidate. It doesn't matter which option is chosen, the borders need to change.
10: Krujë is currently located within the Durazzo province, its borders to the north and the location of its capital need to be adjusted.
11: I hope Srebrenica is the capital of the new Podrinje-province, it was economically very important and regularly changed hands before and a little while after EU4's start because of its silver-mines. The location of the town on the map is already correct, as well. Visegrad could also be its capital, but it should be moved to the south then.

1: If possible, the capital of Meran needs to move a little bit as it was to the east of Innsbruck.
2: Lienz should be closer to the border and the river Drau should be reworked quite a bit. The blue line is just a concept, of course.
3: Salzburg should be more to the south, as it's currently at the same level as Munich.
4: Braunau am Inn should be at the riverjunction and roughly to the north of Salzburg.
5: Oberkärnten's capital (Villach) is way off, the province-borders need to be adjusted and the river Drau (as mentioned earlier) reworked so that it runs to the north of Villach instead of the south. The Drau should also run beneath Klagenfurt instead of above it.
6: As mentioned earlier in the Italy-part; Görz is way off. It wasn't that far inland nor was it coastal, as the current version seems to imply. The province-borders need to look a bit more like the ones in the current version, though. Also, the Soca river needs some changes; it should at least be to the west of Görz.
7: Laibach needs to be more to the south. The Sava river needs to edited, too, and run above Laibach.
8: Graz should be more to the south. Its borders with Celje, Varazdin and Sopron need to be changes, as well.
9: Celje is located too far north, its borders need to be adjusted and the rivers running through it, as well.
10: Triëst's province-shape doesn't cover the Habsburg territories to the south, at all. It needs to merge with the new Rijeka province or there should be two Free-City-sized provinces in that location. Both under Habsburg control, as Rijeka was held by the Lords of Walsee (Habsburg vassals), which had acquired it from the Frankopan's of Croatia a hundred years or so earlier. Direct control by the Habsburgs happened when it was bought from the Lords of Walsee around 1466.
Also, Triëst should be reachable though Krain, as both parts were only seperated from each other by a small strip of Gorizian land. The Kleinstaaterei-thread gives a good indication on how to draw the borders in and around Istria correctly: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...staaterei-the-great-hre-map-revision.1156003/
11: Oberenns, which is a correct name, by the way, also covered the new Traungau province. I suggest renaming it to Linz, the capital.
12: Ostmark was a name used by the nazis for a new administrative region of Austria after the Anschluss had happened. The Ostmark was actually a combination of both Viertel ob dem Manhartsberg and Viertel unter dem Manhartsberg (two administrative entities from the era which EU4 covers, named after mountains). I suggest changing the province-name to either Manhartsberg or to its capital; Krems. Manhartsberg has my preference.
13: Graz was the capital of the Steiermark, having Steiermark as its own province is still kind of odd because of that. I suggest changing the name to Judenburg; its capital.

1: As mentioned in the Austria-part; Rijeka either needs to be a mini-province (a bit of the white part shown on the map here above, under Habsburg control) or be merged with Lika. Either way, the island of Krk should be Croatian.
2: Lika should have either Senj (#1) or Gospic (#2) as capital.

@Caligula Caesar Please take a very good look at this; I hope you guys are able to work with it.
 

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Mingmung

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All this pixel-scale reshuffling and yet Dobruja is still wrong.
How do you mean? I'm pretty sure it isn't wrong, unless you got some other information on it.
 
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otaats

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Well done @Mingmung , i dont see you left anything out. Personally i would vote for a little Serbia redrawing, the new province makes the whole not-so-aesthetic, and your solution to Branicevo looks much better. Also, Srebrenica makes sense as a capital of Podrinje, it was a small town with big economy, likely the most important in all of Bosnia. Višegrad's location on the river made it a more natural trading center that was more accessible to settlers and merchants, but Srebrenica was definitely a very big factor in Bosnia's economy (and the biggest reason for Serbian-Bosnian border conflicts in 15th cent.)
 
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Mingmung

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I want to add that the green dot in the Steiermark/Judenburg province indicates the location of the ironmines from which the town of Steyr gained their iron. So, Traungau itself shouldn't have iron as tradegood. A misconception; even though ironworks were there, there were no noteworthy mines. I hope the developers have seen this, as well.
 

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Another excellent post. I especially like the changes to Neumark, Pisa, Sienna and Zeeland. I would also name Chambéry back to Savoie, as the province is pretty much the region of Savoy. Plus, I this it is nicer to name provinces after regions (though i agree provinces like Vlaanderen and Caux should be renamed)

I want to add that the green dot in the Steiermark/Judenburg province indicates the location of the ironmines from which the town of Steyr gained their iron. So, Traungau itself shouldn't have iron as tradegood. A misconception; even though ironworks were there, there were no noteworthy mines. I hope the developers have seen this, as well.
I Agree. Would I be correct to assume the green dot is close to Leoben (also called 'Gateway to the Styrian Iron Road') ? I think this would make a much better capital for the province, since it was (and is) more important than Judenburg. (I noticed @ZenGenesis already commented this in the Austria dev dairy). I agree renaming the province to its capital would be best, since Steiermark (Styria) is much bigger than this province, and also includes Graz and Celje (and, to some extent, Traungau). My implementation in the Styria region would be to name the provinces to their capital, with dynamic German names to indicate the regions:

Leoben, dynamic German: Obersteiermark
Graz, dynamic German: Mittelsteiermark
Celje, dynamic German: Untersteiermark

Wikis (in German):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelsteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untersteiermark
 

Mingmung

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Another excellent post. I especially like the changes to Neumark, Pisa, Sienna and Zeeland. I would also name Chambéry back to Savoie, as the province is pretty much the region of Savoy. Plus, I this it is nicer to name provinces after regions (though i agree provinces like Vlaanderen and Caux should be renamed)



I Agree. Would I be correct to assume the green dot is close to Leoben (also called 'Gateway to the Styrian Iron Road') ? I think this would make a much better capital for the province, since it was (and is) more important than Judenburg. (I noticed @ZenGenesis already commented this in the Austria dev dairy). I agree renaming the province to its capital would be best, since Steiermark (Styria) is much bigger than this province, and also includes Graz and Celje (and, to some extent, Traungau). My implementation in the Styria region would be to name the provinces to their capital, with dynamic German names to indicate the regions:

Leoben, dynamic German: Obersteiermark
Graz, dynamic German: Mittelsteiermark
Celje, dynamic German: Untersteiermark

Wikis (in German):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelsteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untersteiermark
Judenburg was administratively more important and the provincial capital (Valerian was also traded through this town for the eastern perfume market), also, those province-names you're suggesting are more contemporary.
 
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I love this post. I really hope that the Devs are implementing this. (And I find it a shame, that they are not even answering!)

@Mingmung: Thanks a lot for all your hard work.
 

Entrone

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Also, if you correct the rivers' austrian part, you should correct the croatian parts too. It doesen't make sense correcting only third of it.
Also the alternative capital of Décapolis could be Colmar.
 

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Another excellent post. I especially like the changes to Neumark, Pisa, Sienna and Zeeland. I would also name Chambéry back to Savoie, as the province is pretty much the region of Savoy. Plus, I this it is nicer to name provinces after regions (though i agree provinces like Vlaanderen and Caux should be renamed)



I Agree. Would I be correct to assume the green dot is close to Leoben (also called 'Gateway to the Styrian Iron Road') ? I think this would make a much better capital for the province, since it was (and is) more important than Judenburg. (I noticed @ZenGenesis already commented this in the Austria dev dairy). I agree renaming the province to its capital would be best, since Steiermark (Styria) is much bigger than this province, and also includes Graz and Celje (and, to some extent, Traungau). My implementation in the Styria region would be to name the provinces to their capital, with dynamic German names to indicate the regions:

Leoben, dynamic German: Obersteiermark
Graz, dynamic German: Mittelsteiermark
Celje, dynamic German: Untersteiermark

Wikis (in German):
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obersteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mittelsteiermark
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untersteiermark
Thanks for the quote, but I have to disagree on the Iron in Traungau Issue.
Steyr is my hometown so I am very, very, very familiar with the history of the entire Region.
It's True that the Erzberg - the Iron Mines in question - just lay over the border to Steiermark / Styria but they have always been under the direct influence of Steyr as the only transportation way - the river Enns - rans right through Steyr and all iron had to be offered to the lokal merchants under far cheeper conditions bevor it could be transported futher downstream.

Hey there,


11: Oberenns, which is a correct name, by the way, also covered the new Traungau province. I suggest renaming it to Linz, the capital.
12: Ostmark was a name used by the nazis for a new administrative region of Austria after the Anschluss had happened. The Ostmark was actually a combination of both Viertel ob dem Manhartsberg and Viertel unter dem Manhartsberg (two administrative entities from the era which EU4 covers, named after mountains). I suggest changing the province-name to either Manhartsberg or to its capital; Krems. Manhartsberg has my preference.
Like your post very much but I also have to disagree here:
11: The division between Upper Austria Oberenns in below and above the Danube is quite exact as there is even a small cutural and linguistic diffence here. But the should probably be called TRAUNVIERTEL and MÜHLVIERTEL as they have always been (the quaters named after the rivers Traun and Mühl) as Gau is a later nazi-german thing.
12: Waldviertel would be better and easier. I know that the Province of Ostmark also covers half of Weinviertel but at the Rest of that is absorbed into Wien so I think that can be forgiven ;)

As an Austian I can tell you that these regional names exist far longer and are more stable as any of the political devisions of the always changing Habsburg monarchy bureucratic system (Like the Kreis Sytem on the 18- and 19hundreds.)
 

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Vaximillian

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I still don't know why you think Dobruja's wrong, though. xD
It should look like what it looked like instead of awkwardly being hacked apart in the middle and melted away. Meticulous nudging of pixels is nice but the general shape of the region shouldn’t take the backseat to that.
 

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It should look like what it looked like instead of awkwardly being hacked apart in the middle and melted away. Meticulous nudging of pixels is nice but the general shape of the region shouldn’t take the backseat to that.
Well, the southern bit obviously goes to Silistre. It's not as if the Ottoman administrative divisions had all kinds of EU4-friendly borders. The Silistra eyalet was huge. The map you posted is also from a while after the Ottomans were driven off.

The Tulcea province is like a 'tentpole'-province with the most marsh-like and poor territories surrounding it as well as the delta itself. The southern parts, which are in Silistra, were a bit less frontier-like.

Most of my edits are by the way not as meticulous as you make it sound. I don't know, but there are some pretty big fallacies still out there on the map. Some are pretty minor, yes, but I mentioned them just in case.
 
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Vaximillian

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Most of my edits are by the way not as meticulous as you make it sound. I don't know, but there are some pretty big fallacies still out there on the map. Some are pretty minor, yes, but I mentioned them just in case.
Well, I’m sure I won’t be mistaken that for many observers they might look too much like pixel-pushing and an effort to overwhelm with numbers of small adjustments.
 

Mingmung

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Well, I’m sure I won’t be mistaken that for many observers they might look too much like pixel-pushing and an effort to overwhelm with numbers of small adjustments.
Then they should learn to read maps.
 

Mingmung

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It's been a while since I visited the forums, but I see that Johan's back. Map-changes probably won't happen anymore before the patch hits, but I hope most of it will be taken into consideration for the future.

Still seeing Kirkkilise in recent dev diaries irks me; it has Burgas as capital city, as well. And that's still far from the only thing that's wrong with the map.
 

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@Pbhuh We had some disagreements on parts of the Netherlands and France, if I'm not mistaken, could you elaborate upon those again? We may come up with a good compromise.

It's also sad to see that 80-90% of the things haven't been properly fixed.
 
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Pbhuh

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@Pbhuh We had some disagreements on parts of the Netherlands and France, if I'm not mistaken, could you elaborate upon those again? We may come up with a good compromise.

It's also sad to see that 80-90% of the things haven't been properly fixed.
Sure thing,

So while your edits were mostly a simplified version of fixes which is fine, it gets the point across and helps with the capital locations.

I wanna go a step further and do the province shapes justice to what historically one would expect.

Netherlands:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/fixing-the-dutch-coastline.1347290/

First off, i made a thread about this and might update it a little, I even made a quick graphical mod to fix it, but may go further if 1.30 is released in this state.

dutchproposal.png

I would heavily ask for Drenthe to be territorially intact. It doesnt matter to me if its added to Oversticht or Groningen or even becomes its own province, but the territory should stay intact. Now its split between them which makes things worse than the compromise of not having Drenthe.

Breda needs to be cut in size and Den Bosch should be gaining in size, plus Den Bosch should be its name cause 's-Hertogenbosch is the fancy name, but if you have Den Haag then you cant not have Den Bosch.

Same rule applies. Either do both fancy or both Simplified.

Another thing that annoys me is Opper-Gelre, Either do the province like Modern Day Limburg province or do it like Historical Opper Quarter of Gelre, dont do a half in between attempt.

Two of these things would be solved with 2 extra provinces. I've outlined the Blue area of the Historical part of Limburg that was owned by Brabant.

The province of Brabant needs to be renamed, but also needss to return somewhat to its current 1.29 shape as it lost a bit of territory that just makes it look odd, from a map perspective.

unnamed.gif

France:

loirefrance.png

France has similar issues to the Netherlands. In Particular the area surrounding the Loire.

Anjou is the most aggrecious.

400px-Anjou_-_old_traditional_countries_-_fr.svg.png



The entire area of Haut Anjou is missing, and Angers is not even in the province.

Maine also needs to be further north and Alencon as well. By moving them all up a bit its fixed.

Then there is Blois and Orleans. Orleans keeps a weird southern tip which just doing feel like the province from any historical map.

Blois should be roughly south-southwest from Orleans and have a small extending arm under Orleans.

In the west of Blois there should really consider adding in Vendome or Dunois and merge them into a single province in the west. But thats not likely.

Map_France_1477-en_sovereign_Béarn.png

Rome:

I dont know if you caught it but I feel Rome should be on the other side of the river, cause thats where the hills rome was founded on are.

Furthermore I would remove the southern province of the Papal States and move Rome to include that area as Lazia, while adding in a province in the north of Rome Viterbo.
 
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JaxElite

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Great content but from a devs point of view would really prefer if you would split your edits into smaller divisions, if possible titled.
All devs have tasks to work on but if there are only a few edits in one "chapter" some will probably fix some when they have time and answer here with something like "hey i fixed the Elbe borders" for example. Like this it seems like a task a dev would actually schedule some time for and since they have other tasks that is unlikely

EDIT: fixed typos
 

Mingmung

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So, I saw Ludi et Historia's video on the Balkans an hour ago.

I noticed the following mistakes/wrongs:
- Lesbo has Lesbo as capital, it should be Mytilene
- Siroz/Seres has Thessaloniki as capital, while Selanik (the actual city/province of Thessaloniki) is nearby
- Kolubara has Kolubara as capital, but the Kolubara is a river. Valjevo should be the capital
- Podrinje has Podrinje as capital, but Podrinje was a region, not a town. The town should be Srebrenica
- Arta has Ioanina as capital, instead of, well, Arta. Ioannina is already (correctly) the capital of Yanya (which is actually Turkish for Ioannina, even)
- Kirkkilise is still wrong; it's geographically located in the Edirne-province. Burgas shouldn't be the capital, as well, seeing how it rose up in the 18th century and didn't even exist yet (or was just a small village)
- Achaea still has Nafplio as capital (which was under Venetian control), but Nafplio is currently located in the new Corinth province. It should be Glarentza (or Patras, as that was the capital for the later part of EU4)
- Many locations of cities are just wrong. for example: Silistre is not a Black Sea town, but a Danube town
- Köstendil, not Kostendil; Gümülcine, not Gumulcine
- Lika has Lika as capital, but Lika was not a city. The whole of Istria and its surroundings should get another look or two, anyway
- Cephalonia with Cephalonia as capital? It should be Agios Georgios.

Some of those have just been discovered as the youtuber was clicking on the province (province-capitals can't be seen otherwise). But most of those (and even more mistakes!) were mentioned more than a year ago.

I don't know who the main map creator or anything is, but I want him/her/them to know the following:
- Check your work.
- Actually properly implement feedback if you say you're listening to it and no conflicts with gameplay-intentions exist.

Once again, I've been disappointed.
 
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