Federation presidential election while at war.

[Trithemius]

Not that the Blorg world ever leave a party but... can you just punk out of a Federation?

 

[suplanter]

if they did it was awful and it didnt change size that i noticed during the war.

 

[Stormcow]

something i noticed was how truly awful the impact of boarder friction was on your allies.

the little mushroom empire was surrounded by the hateful red empire on one side who were, a, stronger than them and, b, in the just league, on the other side were the mighty blorg who had always been nice to them, helped them out in wars and rebellions, given them planets and generally been cool for a long time. i would have figured the little shrooms would be begging to become vassles not struggling with a relationship score of 50.

the -150 boarder friction de-buff will eventually force you to go federal or do something unkind to your best friends in the galaxy.

having watched the steam yesterday i don't think federations are something i would be happy about joining in their current state. but i am equally annoyed about the boarder friction which i think should be less for long term allies. maybe have a boarder friction reduction bonus that goes up slowly each year or month.

i don't know, maybe its cos i live on an island. Is there boarder friction between Sweden and Norway? do the Devs occasionally look north west, shake their heads and say "bloody Norway"

 

[PG908]

something i noticed was how truly awful the impact of boarder friction was on your allies.

the little mushroom empire was surrounded by the hateful red empire on one side who were, a, stronger than them and, b, in the just league, on the other side were the mighty blorg who had always been nice to them, helped them out in wars and rebellions, given them planets and generally been cool for a long time. i would have figured the little shrooms would be begging to become vassles not struggling with a relationship score of 50.

the -150 boarder friction de-buff will eventually force you to go federal or do something unkind to your best friends in the galaxy.

having watched the steam yesterday i don't think federations are something i would be happy about joining in their current state. but i am equally annoyed about the boarder friction which i think should be less for long term allies. maybe have a boarder friction reduction bonus that goes up slowly each year or month.

i don't know, maybe its cos i live on an island. Is there boarder friction between Sweden and Norway? do the Devs occasionally look north west, shake their heads and say "bloody Norway"

To be fair they were fantaical xenophobes (which substantially increases border friction), but there definitely should be something to offset it on the grounds that you're literally the reason they're alive.

 

[BrianSH]

Makes total sense: and some friends should start revolting because the election doesn't take place

 

[DDenis]

By the way, I don't really see why I'd want to spent influence to stay president after I've declared a war... If I'm a federation president and my term is almost over I'd definitely start a war with some profit for me, so that I'd be sure that I'd have some profit while someone else is a president.

 

[Caspoi]

Note that it is a lot harder in Stellaris to technically keep a war that you have already won going because the AI can offer total submission which you can't deny. They did so in the stream.

 

[ahhheygao]

To be fair they were fantaical xenophobes (which substantially increases border friction), but there definitely should be something to offset it on the grounds that you're literally the reason they're alive.

But there were offsets! Despite their extremely unfriendly ethos, the Zracons still liked the Blorgs enough this while time to remain allied.

 

[barny]

something i noticed was how truly awful the impact of boarder friction was on your allies.

the little mushroom empire was surrounded by the hateful red empire on one side who were, a, stronger than them and, b, in the just league, on the other side were the mighty blorg who had always been nice to them, helped them out in wars and rebellions, given them planets and generally been cool for a long time. i would have figured the little shrooms would be begging to become vassles not struggling with a relationship score of 50.

the -150 boarder friction de-buff will eventually force you to go federal or do something unkind to your best friends in the galaxy.

having watched the steam yesterday i don't think federations are something i would be happy about joining in their current state. but i am equally annoyed about the boarder friction which i think should be less for long term allies. maybe have a boarder friction reduction bonus that goes up slowly each year or month.

i don't know, maybe its cos i live on an island. Is there boarder friction between Sweden and Norway? do the Devs occasionally look north west, shake their heads and say "bloody Norway"

Border friction seems to be intended to keep the diplomacy more dynamic.

Considering that the other mushroom empire were fanatic xenophobes the border friction was too low if anything. Species with other ethics will have much less border friction, so an alliance with them will be even more stable.

 

[Kyle Lionheart]

[...]

And what is, if the war drags on? Should a federation be punished for long wars by additional modifiers? Wouldn't players exploit that against federations?

Um, actually, I think this would make sense. Long wars should have repercussions in general, but even more so in a Federation when there members who have nothing to gain from it. And if others exploit it...why not? Exploiting opponent's weaknesses is legit.
I don't want to mention real-world examples, but I'm sure most can think of at least a couple fairly recent instances involving a federation's citizens getting increasingly pissed about ongoing hostilities...

As for the specific issue discussed in the thread. A possible solution is threefold:

1. If the president changes, s/he should have the option to re-evaluate the war. Not only s/he should become the new warleader (something that did not happen in the Stream, unfortunately: the Zracons(?) kept that position throughout), but s/he should be able to add and/or remove war goals once after coming into power.
2. The current president during a war should have the option to try and extend the mandate by claiming a state of emergency. This should cost substantial influence, both as an initial lump sum and over time, so you cannot keep it going forever unless you are really swimming in influence.
3. During a state of emergency, the other federation members should be able to oppose it by calling a vote of no confidence against the president, spending their own influence. If the vote fails, those who were in favor of it get the option of leaving the federation, even during the war.

 

[kgaa]

I don't understand why the Federations can't work like the HRE in EU4. So that everyone could vote for the president. Then maybe the strongest empire in a federation could also gain something from being in it since people would be more likely to vote for them to lead. And also, if an empire goes the Zracon way and goes around declaring wars that only benefit themselves, they won't be president for much longer after that. This would ensure a sort of 'silent power' for the smaller non-president federation members.

 

[OtsegoGhost]

I don't understand why the Federations can't work like the HRE in EU4. So that everyone could vote for the president. Then maybe the strongest empire in a federation could also gain something from being in it since people would be more likely to vote for them to lead. And also, if an empire goes the Zracon way and goes around declaring wars that only benefit themselves, they won't be president for much longer after that. This would ensure a sort of 'silent power' for the smaller non-president federation members.

Definitely, the federation system can be just as punishing of militarists without giving the current fed president a 10 year ticket to wreak random havoc in the name of democracy.

 

[PG908]

But there were offsets! Despite their extremely unfriendly ethos, the Zracons still liked the Blorgs enough this while time to remain allied.

Yeah, but that the relationship got much worse because the blorg took planets they showed no interest in is kinda odd. To the point where they were hovering around +50. It would be nice to see border friction reduced but have an additional penalty of "colonized desired planets" in some form.