Federation in 1.5?

[Glapsviðr]

How will federations be handled and created in 1.5?

Is it through the diplomacy tradition only or is it a tech that can still be researched? Will it still be possible to federate a xenophobe and and a xenophile? Will the traits and ethos need to match?

I am currently involved with a 23 player game and we will start soon a new campaign. The question is, will players that have chosen the domination tree be the only one to start/form a federation.

 

[Alblaka]

From what we know from stream bits and teasers (all non-final):

• Founding of a Federation is unlocked by a Diplomacy Tradition, making it mandatory pick for someone going for Federation play (unknown whether same unlock is required to JOIN a Federation).
• The Diplomacy Tradition has an upgrade reducing Influence Cost for diplomatic agreements (including Federations)
• The Diplomacy Tradition has a few unique bonus' to being in a Federation (I think it had a +% Unity generation if in federation and something with naval limits)
• Presumably the AI logic for joining federations remains unchanged (and there is no hard limits on who can join what, for players)

 

[kevml27]

I feel like I read somewhere that federations will be able to merge into one superstate, like with diplo-annexing vassals? Is that true?

 

[kevml27]

I feel like I read somewhere that federations will be able to merge into one superstate, like with diplo-annexing vassals? Is that true?

Though, that probably wouldn't work out too well in human (MP) games.

 

[Alblaka]

I feel like I read somewhere that federations will be able to merge into one superstate, like with diplo-annexing vassals? Is that true?

That was mentioned along the sidelines of Wiz's future topic for Stellaris to cover, but is almost certainly not in Utopia.
Alongside planet-killing super weapons and proper victory conditions: ETA unknown.

 

[Kilmantor]

I feel like I read somewhere that federations will be able to merge into one superstate, like with diplo-annexing vassals? Is that true?

For MP games a good solution for this is something like the archon mode in Starcraft 2. So you play the same empire, but with 2 or more players. If 2 big empires merge, there would be enough work to do.

I don't like it, that the federation tech is locked behin the diplomacy tradition. Makes this tradition kind of mandatory over others.
Nevertheless, Defense Pacts are getting more important this way.

 

[Slarkon]

The best way to handle merging of federations is defo to keep them as independant sates but align their colours to be the exact same (for those who have not played it in the star trek mod several different species, ships, flags merge) and mid game became the same colour and flag.

I like this over merging into one super state because that would just be a bigger sector and you would lose the individial ship designs and feel of the federation. Homeworlds and shipyard systems lose thair significance. The vassels of the same colour act like sectors only they also build 20k+ fleets. Much better

 

[3rdMusketeer]

Or maybe they could bring in a kind of levy system, like in CK2. Sectors with a military focus can give more, etc. I'm thinking of the feudal system, like in Dune, though... Probably wouldn't work in practice. I just never understood how a massive space-faring empire doesn't ever get militias to defend certain areas of space, or that can be called into war by an overlord. But meh, I'm probably just thinking weird.

 

[extrapancake]

For MP games a good solution for this is something like the archon mode in Starcraft 2. So you play the same empire, but with 2 or more players. If 2 big empires merge, there would be enough work to do.

You can do this in other games with the same engine, so it could be possible. Would be cool if the federated federation could also break up along different lines than it was joined with, or different players in control of different factions so there is some kind of internal struggle. Should be less stable than empires that expanded normally, like austria hungary compared to the german emprie.

 

[Bryartuck]

Wasn't there something about xenophobes not being able to do diplomacy with other races? Wouldn't that preclude them from joining a federation?

 

[GC13]

Wasn't there something about xenophobes not being able to do diplomacy with other races? Wouldn't that preclude them from joining a federation?

It's fanatical purifiers, a specific kind of xenophobe, who will have their diplomacy disabled.

 

[Bryartuck]

It's fanatical purifiers, a specific kind of xenophobe, who will have their diplomacy disabled.

Ah yes, that was it. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[AvalancheZ250]

From what we know from stream bits and teasers (all non-final):

• Founding of a Federation is unlocked by a Diplomacy Tradition, making it mandatory pick for someone going for Federation play (unknown whether same unlock is required to JOIN a Federation).
• The Diplomacy Tradition has an upgrade reducing Influence Cost for diplomatic agreements (including Federations)
• The Diplomacy Tradition has a few unique bonus' to being in a Federation (I think it had a +% Unity generation if in federation and something with naval limits)
• Presumably the AI logic for joining federations remains unchanged (and there is no hard limits on who can join what, for players)

To found a Federation you technically need 2 empires. Would both have to have the Found Federation tenant in the Diplomacy tradition tree, or just one of them? And how about Federation associates? They don't seem to do a whole lot right now.

 

[The Founder]

From what we know from stream bits and teasers (all non-final):

• Founding of a Federation is unlocked by a Diplomacy Tradition, making it mandatory pick for someone going for Federation play (unknown whether same unlock is required to JOIN a Federation).
• The Diplomacy Tradition has an upgrade reducing Influence Cost for diplomatic agreements (including Federations)
• The Diplomacy Tradition has a few unique bonus' to being in a Federation (I think it had a +% Unity generation if in federation and something with naval limits)
• Presumably the AI logic for joining federations remains unchanged (and there is no hard limits on who can join what, for players)

Additional stuff:
Having Foreing Ties (I asume that incldues being Vassal, Defense Pact and Federation) increases Xenophile Atraction. There will also be Ethos atraction if your Ethics varry, wich a Pacifist could actually use for the Archeivement:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/1-5-and-the-insidious-pacifist.1004309/

Is it through the diplomacy tradition only or is it a tech that can still be researched? Will it still be possible to federate a xenophobe and and a xenophile? Will the traits and ethos need to match?

Afaik no longer a tech. Only the Tradition. Note that it also gives more Diplomatic Relations.

Xenophobe and Xenophile could Federate. Xenophile and Xenophiba pretty much counter one another. However the AI personality might have considerable effect here, as most Xenophobe AI personalities have acceptance penalties for Defensive Pacts and Federations.
The Xenophobe has to consider that just being in a Fedeartion likely drops his Xenophobe atraction and gives him Xenophile one. Until that takes effect, he will propably be a blocker to Federation Diploamcy - Xenophobia means he hates everyone, and thus deny admission of other Empires.
Ethics already need to match largely, But again, the AI Type tends to be the bigger Factor.

But regardless of relative realtionships, unless they are Metalheads of Fanatic Purifiers, they will form Federations with enough shared treat.

 

[Alblaka]

To found a Federation you technically need 2 empires. Would both have to have the Found Federation tenant in the Diplomacy tradition tree, or just one of them? And how about Federation associates? They don't seem to do a whole lot right now.

Nothing was detailed in this regard, but from a programmers point of view I would assume they simply moved the 'tech' to a tradition perk and kept the mechanics the same.
And with the previous 'Form Federation' tech, it was only required to offer another empire to Federalize. Aka, only whoever send the initial request needs it, anyone else can join freely.

The Xenophobe has to consider that just being in a Fedeartion likely drops his Xenophobe atraction and gives him Xenophile one.

I would hope AI-Ethic-Attraction-Calculation was considered, but I feel like this might be wishful optimism.

 

[The Founder]

I would hope AI-Ethic-Attraction-Calculation was considered, but I feel like this might be wishful optimism.

I think it already is considered somewhat, via the Unwillingess of the AI to interact Diplomatically depending on AI type.

Game AI can not plan ahead. It never could. But we managed to fake it for certain very well known games (TicTacToe, Chess).
Having a fixed penalty to Diplomatic Relations and Federation Acceptance? Feasible.
Making the decision it wants to become more Xenophile? Likely not even possible.

 

[FailFailWin]

Is the federation fleet fixed yet/will it be in 1.5 is my question.

 

[Emraldis]

Is the federation fleet fixed yet/will it be in 1.5 is my question.

It looks like it's gotten a better interface from the dev streams, at least.