Feature Request - Tutorial

[unmerged(10501)]

Please, include a tutorial in the next patch. It could be speechless, just with improved "hint" texts.

In such a complex game like Sengoku, the lack of a tutorial will prevent new players to get it.

:excl:

 

[oddible]

Any time spent programming a tutorial is time spent not adding / fixing features. The hint system in Sengoku is better than any other similar Paradox game. There is a manual.

 

[unmerged(10501)]

Hello oddible,

I understand what you mean, but it's the first time I see a game of this complexity without a tutorial. And I have played umpteen games.

A game like this should never be released with at least, a mini tutorial.

About the manual, part of the content is uncertain, thus error prone i.e.

I don't know why that ended up in the manual since demesne limit connected to the intrigue value has never been on the table for Sengoku.

 

[Einigkeit]

If you've ever played another Paradox game before (and you clearly have), you already know how the game works at its core. While there are quite a few new things/changes to existing mechanics, the new hint system covers all of them pretty well. Granted, it's a lot of reading, but that's the reason why the hints come up every time until you dismiss them permanently. IMO, the best way to learn how to play a Paradox game is to just jump in; the tutorials weren't a whole lot of help in past games, and Sengoku probably has the lowest learning curve of any of their games.

TL;DR I'm inclined to agree with oddible.

 

[unmerged(10501)]

While there are quite a few new things/changes to existing mechanics, the new hint system covers all of them pretty well. Granted, it's a lot of reading, but that's the reason why the hints come up every time until you dismiss them permanently.

Hello Einigkeit,

your suggestion is valid as long as the Developers are able to fix the issue about that tiny black-text over the grey background on every Hint Window. Not only me, but several others have said that on larger LCD screens the text is almost unreadable.

Regards

 

[GShock]

I think doing a tutorial is a MUST for this game but we don't need the DEVs to do that... the community can do it. Titles, ranks, wars, honor... more or less works like in Crusader Kings... we just need a good player to teach us how to do it and what to do it in a simple way with a few texts and some SS (to clarify the interface) and that's all.
No big deal... maybe the DEVs can give this task to one of their Betas?

But please do, we really need it.

 

[unmerged(10501)]

Well,

let's see if somebody comes up with something like that. I could help with the layout, etc. Everything else, should be written/done by high-skilled players.

 

[Einigkeit]

your suggestion is valid as long as the Developers are able to fix the issue about that tiny black-text over the grey background on every Hint Window. Not only me, but several others have said that on larger LCD screens the text is almost unreadable.

Well, I guess that's a good reason for not being able to understand the game very well. I hope they fix that problem for you guys soon!

 

[Wampbit]

I'd rather see fixes and improvements than a tutorial. The manual is comprehensive, as are the tips, any remaining uncertainties can be addressed in your first game, where you spend a few hours becoming accustomed to Sengoku. Although it would make the game more user friendly, it seems to me as if there is already plenty of help; the dev time would be better used elsewhere.

 

[HandofBane]

The hints are helpful, and if one has played previous Paradox games, some of the mechanics are similar enough to aid in learning it more quickly... but there are still quite a few things not very clearly explained. Many times I have had to come back to this forum to look up certain aspects of the game for better clarification on how they worked (plots, betrothals, better explanation of honor gains/losses, pretenders, etc). A large part of the problem seems to be that there is no manual included in easy access via the Steam version. That radically steepens the learning curve for anyone who has never picked up a previous Paradox title, and adds to some confusion for those of us who have with newer mechanics, as the tooltips only have so much text space to explain what they do. This has been confirmed by at least one dev, and was going to be looked into.

 

[unmerged(10501)]

[..] That radically steepens the learning curve for anyone who has never picked up a previous Paradox title, and adds to some confusion for those of us who have with newer mechanics, as the tooltips only have so much text space to explain what they do. This has been confirmed by at least one dev, and was going to be looked into.

Glad to hear the development team is trying to address the issue.

Regards

 

[oddible]

A large part of the problem seems to be that there is no manual included in easy access via the Steam version.

This is actually incorrect. If you register here on these forums you can get the manual from the sticky. And the devs have already said that the current manual downloadable here is updated.

And... to those who are asking for a tutorial because you can't read the manual... please people. No, the hints don't have everything, I actually had to open the manual, search for something, and read half a page. /sigh

 

[HandofBane]

This is actually incorrect. If you register here on these forums you can get the manual from the sticky. And the devs have already said that the current manual downloadable here is updated.

And... to those who are asking for a tutorial because you can't read the manual... please people. No, the hints don't have everything, I actually had to open the manual, search for something, and read half a page. /sigh

And this helps people who have never picked up a Paradox game or been to the forums before... how? Nothing on the associated Steam pages, nor in the launcher or game itself give any indication to those new to it that there is a need to register on these forums, nor find said sticky, download something that should be already linked with the game, then finally be able to read it just to figure out the answers to even basic questions. Even the CD key assigned to each purchase is not necessary to register to actually play unless you worry about achievements (not even active yet for this game), or play multiplayer (downright pointless to consider if one cannot even figure out single player).

There certainly is a manual available, but it is most definitely *NOT* in easy access for anyone seeing Sengoku pop up for sale on Steam this week, especially not for those who are not aware just how active and helpful these forums usually are compared to most other games/developers out there.

 

[unmerged(10501)]

This is actually incorrect. If you register here on these forums you can get the manual from the sticky. And the devs have already said that the current manual downloadable here is updated.

And... to those who are asking for a tutorial because you can't read the manual... please people. No, the hints don't have everything, I actually had to open the manual, search for something, and read half a page. /sigh

Hello there oodible,

- The manual is NOT UPDATED. It makes a few cross-references among pages that doesn't match at all. Obviously, makes me feel the other way around. Dev Team posted some corrections, but still have mistakes.

- Steam ALWAYS offers manuals in its web-store with the games. ALWAYS. I can't find a reason why Sengoku should be different. I've never had to come here, register the game and then get the manual. Myself had to go to Steam Forums and refer people to these forums to get it. People who were absolutely lost, like I feel now.

- I've read the manual and started some games, but the manual on no count explains basic concepts of the game itself. It's quite interesting and exotic reading all those awkward Japanese terms... but confusing as well. I'm sure I can sort it out, cos I already own some Paradox Games, but IMO you can't rely everything on a "hint" window. Hint method can't override a simple tutorial, ever. :excl:

- Please, don't think in senior/high skilled Paradox Games Players. If it's your first Paradox Game.... you are doomed

Regards

 

[unmerged(145758)]

Please, include a tutorial in the next patch. It could be speechless, just with improved "hint" texts.

In such a complex game like Sengoku, the lack of a tutorial will prevent new players to get it.

:excl:

You are absolutely correct, I downloaded the demo and soon as I saw there was no tutorial I immediately deleted it. I for one am sick and tired of buying Paradox crapware where they can't be bothered to explain how to play their games.
I mean how much effort does it really take to sit down in front of a computer with a video camera and create a tutorial video(s)?? But I am thankful they created a demo so that I could see they continue remain oblivious to the need, I got a enough Paradox games that go unplayed, I don't need another one..

 

[GShock]

I am the living example of how a very complex game without a player's guide can be detrimental.
Got Crusader kings expansion and all and I dropped it for that reason.

Now I have Sengoku and I do see that the interface is much more user friendly but that doesn't completely solve the issue. A new player is really DOOMED in Sengoku and the manual explains everything in concepts but the interface and the possibilities are unlimited.

This is why we need a good player, not the devs, this ain't job for devs! Anyone can use pdf, write and take some screenshots. As long as it's a GOOD player that's why I recommended a beta.

Agree, let the devs do the important things but we really need a player's guide (video tutorials are pretty useless. we need strategies to achieve what we need to achieve with the use of the interfaces). Period.

 

[oddible]

The fact that Steam is not showing a manual is a known issue and has already been addressed by the devs on this forum. I'm not sure why the Sengoku forum isn't locked down like other games - if you showed up here and it said you couldn't see or post without registering then people would surely get the hint.

There IS a basic guide in the form of a Nambu AAR linked in the forums. Not only is it highly informative and written as a beginner's guide but it is a fun read as well. At one point it was stickied, is it not still?

Edit -

Ahh, it is in the AAR forum (maybe it was always there). Here's the link:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-hopeful-rise-of-the-Nanbu-clan-A-Sengoku-AAR

Should probably be stickied in the main forum as well since so many people are asking for a basic guide.

 

[Kirien]

Any time spent programming a tutorial is time spent not adding / fixing features. The hint system in Sengoku is better than any other similar Paradox game. There is a manual.

*edit* Didn't see Odd's post about the steam not showing a manual so disregard this post

 

[unmerged(10501)]

There IS a basic guide in the form of a Nambu AAR linked in the forums. Not only is it highly informative and written as a beginner's guide but it is a fun read as well. At one point it was stickied, is it not still?

Edit -

Ahh, it is in the AAR forum (maybe it was always there). Here's the link:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...-hopeful-rise-of-the-Nanbu-clan-A-Sengoku-AAR

Should probably be stickied in the main forum as well since so many people are asking for a basic guide.

Thanks for the link. I really appreciate it.

Regards :happy: