Fear of the Dark should be considered a challenging Origin

[Less2]

1/3rd less pops and -1 research pool is absolutely killer. Start with resource deficits and on average 50% of the time you could have chosen a better tech if you had 3 picks instead of 2, which is incredibly harmful even if you overcome the initial economic problems. I haven't seen anything useful that really counteracts these penalties, I've gotten 2 meh techs from the haven planet and refused another 2 that would have had huge economic penalties attached. Interaction aside from these random events seems to have stopped, they've complained every time I've done something new like join the Galactic Community or a Federation.

Does it ever pay off? I was kind of hoping that there would be some event after a few decades where the pre-FTL planet would join you and some of the penalties would be eased. But 70 years in and that hasn't happened.

 

[TerranLukas]

Since you are asking, yes, it does eventually pay off when mid game hits and your partner planet finds the ones who launched the dark forest strike. You can go to them, and if you exterminate them (done via event), your neighboring planet will join you.

 

[Less2]

Shame that it takes so long to fire then.

Spoiler

And having a battle through an event sounds pretty lame honestly. Some kind of mini-crisis would have been way more interesting. I made a fan militarist distinguished admiralty warrior culture start expecting to fight some kind of epic battle. Now it turns out I'll have half the galaxy conquered before this event hits because I forgot to mess with the dates.

 

[Eladrin]

We originally had it planned to be flagged as Challenging, but in our playtesting we decided that it was more different than specifically challenging, since your good friends may help you out at times.

Or "help" you out, occasionally.

 

[klingonadmiral]

Considering that finishing the storyline gives you the option for an extra civic slot, it more than pays off.

 

[Less2]

Considering that finishing the storyline gives you the option for an extra civic slot, it more than pays off.

Not sure I entirely agree with the. The gap between an origin that helps you and an origin that harms you is greater than a civic. But at least that's a nice unique bonus.

 

[SpaceViking]

The early hit didn't make too much of a difference in the game I am in as the other planet also tosses you techs and such. Though they also do annoying stuff, too. It has been interesting at least.

The option that came up was really interesting as it literally changed my race's choices 100% if I selected the right (wrong?) one.

 

[Dr. B]

You get more anomalies. I love anomalies.

 

[Dementor4]

Evryone going out of theyr way to not spoiler it..

Well it turns out I was wrong anyway because it's not compatible with Inward Perfection. So I'll just delete my post. You can go ahead and delete or blur the quote to preserve the surprise if you want.

 

[Less2]

Isn't getting fanatic purifiers midgame kind of the opposite of what you want? FP is by far the most useful early game when its a huge military bonus with no competition. You take it to easily win wars in 2220. By the midgame when everyone has military bonuses it becomes less effective, and the penalty of needing to purge pops is far harsher the higher average populations are and the more logistic growth penalty you're hitting.

 

[Dr. B]

Isn't getting fanatic purifiers midgame kind of the opposite of what you want? FP is by far the most useful early game when its a huge military bonus with no competition. You take it to easily win wars in 2220. By the midgame when everyone has military bonuses it becomes less effective, and the penalty of needing to purge pops is far harsher the higher average populations are and the more logistic growth penalty you're hitting.

If you play Fanatic Purifiers on maximum difficulty these days, you get eaten alive. But to be able to build up and prepare, and then switch midgame, is alright.

(I did this by starting as Purifier, then changed ethics to invalidate the civic, in order to stay alive, but it is not exactly ideal.)

 

[Less2]

If you play Fanatic Purifiers on maximum difficulty these days, you get eaten alive. But to be able to build up and prepare, and then switch midgame, is alright.

(I did this by starting as Purifier, then changed ethics to invalidate the civic, in order to stay alive, but it is not exactly ideal.)

I can manage fine for the first 2-3 wars in most games. It's past that where every war there's a chance I run into the 1 in 10 AIs that looks just as big as everyone else (also not advanced) but throws 120k fleet power at me when everyone else has 30k-60ks. And of course playing the intel game to figure out who is weak... well no one want to do intel. Plus if they are stronger they'll probably just declare on you anyway.

Unfortunately relying on your own pop growth to ramp up your fleet power to match that just isn't practical. And if you're taking FP later I can only see it immediately crippling you as you are forced to purge a significant amount of your own pops. It's a shame there isn't some kind of Fanatical Enslaver civic (thinking Ur-Quan), basically operating as a non-machine Driven Assimilator.

 

[mial42]

I can manage fine for the first 2-3 wars in most games. It's past that where every war there's a chance I run into the 1 in 10 AIs that looks just as big as everyone else (also not advanced) but throws 120k fleet power at me when everyone else has 30k-60ks. And of course playing the intel game to figure out who is weak... well no one want to do intel. Plus if they are stronger they'll probably just declare on you anyway.

Unfortunately relying on your own pop growth to ramp up your fleet power to match that just isn't practical. And if you're taking FP later I can only see it immediately crippling you as you are forced to purge a significant amount of your own pops. It's a shame there isn't some kind of Fanatical Enslaver civic (thinking Ur-Quan), basically operating as a non-machine Driven Assimilator.

Could you release all non-primary species pops into a vassal headed by your primary species, then tax them?

 

[Less2]

Could you release all non-primary species pops into a vassal headed by your primary species, then tax them?

I would guess that it works. FP lets you interact with empires headed by the same species, but they'll still have -1000 opinion of you unless they are FP. I'm not an expert on vassal management since I try to avoid using them. I think you can ignore vassal loyalty but I have no idea whether a huge opinion malus would lead the problems.

Incidentally I wonder what would happen to non-same species vassals you had when you went FP. Do they just get canceled? Or they continue existing in peace?

 

[Verx90]

Do they just get canceled? Or they continue existing in peace?

Automatically canceled.

Under all aspect, is better to pick become the crisis, instead of going that midgame.

 

[Dr. B]

I can manage fine for the first 2-3 wars in most games. It's past that where every war there's a chance I run into the 1 in 10 AIs that looks just as big as everyone else (also not advanced) but throws 120k fleet power at me when everyone else has 30k-60ks. And of course playing the intel game to figure out who is weak... well no one want to do intel. Plus if they are stronger they'll probably just declare on you anyway.

Unfortunately relying on your own pop growth to ramp up your fleet power to match that just isn't practical. And if you're taking FP later I can only see it immediately crippling you as you are forced to purge a significant amount of your own pops. It's a shame there isn't some kind of Fanatical Enslaver civic (thinking Ur-Quan), basically operating as a non-machine Driven Assimilator.

I think you are partly correct, this is a dubious gameplan in most cases.

There are (at least) two scenarios this delayed FP plan can work I think. One is by being Necrophage and keep on eating, the other (which I did) is by taking the Galactic Doorstep origin, and rush+construct a decent gateway network while playing friendly with the AIs. It a lot easier to go ultra-wide and devour empires when you have gateways to defend all sides at once.

 

[Less2]

Automatically canceled.

Under all aspect, is better to pick become the crisis, instead of going that midgame.

Why not both.jpg

 

[Verx90]

Why not both.jpg

because.... you lose.... vassals?

 

[Less2]

because.... you lose.... vassals?

I was going with the assumption that we'd be making vassals that are primary species led.

I think you are partly correct, this is a dubious gameplan in most cases.

There are (at least) two scenarios this delayed FP plan can work I think. One is by being Necrophage and keep on eating, the other (which I did) is by taking the Galactic Doorstep origin, and rush+construct a decent gateway network while playing friendly with the AIs. It a lot easier to go ultra-wide and devour empires when you have gateways to defend all sides at once.

Unfortunately you can't take Fear of the Dark and also be Necrophage, unless there's some trick I'm missing.

One thing that used to work IIRC is that synthetic ascension would let you assimilate pops of other species even as a FP. Is that still the case? That would make going FP after ascending a fairly viable strat. EDIT: Looks like this is a "no".