Favors Expanded

[Fitzjacob]

Favors are an interesting feature if a bit underutilized. I often find myself with a favor I don't really have a use for and always hate seeing it go to waste. Surely many of you have your own ideas for different way to use favors and with that in mind I propose a little brainstorming thread.

Here's what I've come up with, both on the use and acquisition of favors:


Liege-vassal relations

• Offer to join liege's war. This should be a decision available if your liege is at war (perhaps only defensive) were you ask to join in exchange for a favor. The liege can refuse (just as they sometimes refuse monetary donations) if they feel they don't need it.
• Ask vassal to join war. Like the above mentioned "offer to join liege's war" but instigated by the liege instead.

Pope and cardinal related
Most of the current papal favors could be reworked to fit the current favor system.

• Ask independent realm to join war. Could save the pope from being to easily subjugated by an empire with an antipope.
• Request money. Sounds a bit boring, but my thought is that it could replace to current papal favor. This way you can only ask once
• Keep free investiture. Use a favor to remain free when the pope ask you to change to papal investiture. Could be especially useful now that you'll be excommunicated if you refuse. Assuming, of course, that excommunications will actually matter now.
• Ask to nominate bishop. Ask the pope to appoint a bishop of your choice when you ask during papal investiture. Just a force acceptance like the current favor influenced betrothals, should be very easy to implement.
• Request Invasion. Similar to above, but with a few restrictions. Otherwise it'll be a bit overpowered.
• Request Excommunication. See above.
• Ask to lift excommunication. Again, see above.
• Promote cardinal. Ask the pope to consider your bishop for cardinal promotion. Could be a bit difficult to implement (since there can only be one presumptive nominee at the time) but I'd suggest a rather large bonus to cardinal appoint score to your strongest candidate.

I could go on awhile but I don't want to make the opening post to long. There could be specific favors for different religions, governments, cultures etc. Please add your own suggestions, I've only scratched the surface.

 

[RagingJaws]

Invasion would be downright OP. I'm not sure what sort of restrictions would be possible without making it more of a hassle than the normal papal grant and if it's not a hassle in the first place, it's better than the papal grant.

The offering to join wars doesn't seem needed. I have enough uses for my favors as it is and I don't think having feduals act like tribals but with good troops is any fun to slog through and very strong in the players hands.

The cardinal appointment bonus and the Investiture blocking sound good though. I rarely play a Catholic but having more ways to fool around with the College of Cardinals would be great. The cardinal bonus would have to be balanced though, no more than the Culture+ bonus I think.

 

[Fitzjacob]

Invasion would be downright OP. I'm not sure what sort of restrictions would be possible without making it more of a hassle than the normal papal grant and if it's not a hassle in the first place, it's better than the papal grant.

Yeah, you're probably right about it being . How about keeping the current system (requiring claims or smaller realms as well as piety and high opinion) and having you owe the pope a favor after being granted a request? The reason I want to involve favors is that they might make the pope a more active player on the world stage, rather than just sitting hauled up in Rome, counting money, and commissioning a random crusade every thirty years. All that would be needed are more ways for the pope to use favors. Requesting help if he's ever invaded would be a good thing, I think. Currently, there's almost no opposition if the kaiser decides to install his antipope.

The offering to join wars doesn't seem needed. I have enough uses for my favors as it is and I don't think having feduals act like tribals but with good troops is any fun to slog through and very strong in the players hands.

I get your concerns and that's not what I'm after. If the HRE were able to call all their vassals to arms, it'd of course be unstoppable. I'm more after a situation were a vassal who personally stands to lose in a war can help their directly. Imagine that the kaiser has a claim on Burgundy and is pressing that claim against France. It stands to reason that the duke of Burgundy would send everything he's got to avoid losing a title rather than just offering what little he's legally required to. This wouldn't be a case of empowering the player either; we already raise our personal forces if we risk losing a title even if we're not involved in the war. We can help our liege by reinforcing him in battles (while not a participant in the war, we're still hostile to the attacker) and we can siege down hostile holdings (the control is then transferred to our liege adding to the warscore), the AI as no such self preservation. If anything it'll level the playing field.

The cardinal appointment bonus and the Investiture blocking sound good though. I rarely play a Catholic but having more ways to fool around with the College of Cardinals would be great. The cardinal bonus would have to be balanced though, no more than the Culture+ bonus I think.

I agree, nothing too huge. The Italian culture bonus is 200, that would be more than enough. Favors could also be involved in the papal election. The cardinals could possibly utilize the system by requesting votes, simony is all the rage after all. It'll probably be a bit messy in the current system, but it definitely have to be considered if a theocracy dlc if ever made or if the catholic faith simply gets an overhaul.


But hey, we're getting off track. Surely you agree that the favor system could be used in more ways. I especially like the option to stop a vassal war that we're getting in the next patch. As liege you often end up without many uses for favors after you've passed all laws you want. Does anyone have more ideas?