Favorite mech builds

[Curtis Cook]

This is to continue a discussion begun in the "Using EW Successfully" thread.

I realize this isn't a popular position, but I like to play with mechs that at least vaguely resemble stock mechs. For example, my version of the Marauder 3D uses 3 large lasers (+10 damage) for distance work, 2 medium lasers (+10 damage) to top off head hits, and 2 small lasers (+10 damage when I can find them) for the same at close range. If any two of the first five get a head hit (35% each), or any one of the first five + one of the last two, the OpFor is recruiting for a new pilot. I'm not as interested in salvage as I am in closing out combats rapidly while maintaining some semblance of historicity. Although it can't alpha strike more than a couple of turns in a row, this loadout allows the five main weapons to fire every turn while hauling maximum armor, and I don't ask for more than that.

I usually pair it with a Warhammer 6R packing two Snub PPCs (I prefer the Snubs that save heat to the ones that add damage in this configuration), two medium lasers (ERMLs if I find the heat-saving Snubs) and four small lasers (ERSLs if I can load up on double heat sinks). The WarHamster scrapes massive damage off mechs carrying lighter armor while the Marauder snipes the mechs that carry more armor.

The third mech in the lance is an Archer 2S, usually carrying 2 LRM-5s and 2 LRM-15s, which generates a bit more heat, but saves a couple of tons vs. the 2 LRM-20 version. I know the cool kids opt for increased stability damage, but I always go for +2 damage per missile, if I can find them. It's another shredder, like the WarHamster. I use the extra tonnage to carry additional ammo.

The fourth member of the lance can be any of three:
1) another Archer 2S, but with 4 SRM-6s (it seems to be quite easy to find SRMs that max out both damage and stability damage, and Archers increase SRM stability damage by 75%);
2) Cataphract 0X, which was covered fairly extensively in the EW thread, but I prefer one with 6 support weapons (machineguns with +5 shots, and 0 tonnage if you can find them) and as many arm mods that increase stability damage as you can scrape together. Anything that enters the EW bubble is knocked down, and otherwise the Cataphract doesn't fire, so it's less likely to lose its EW protection;
3) An Orion. I won't go into detail on this, as I only do it when I'm unable to put one of my first two choices in the field, but I find this a good mech to outfit heavily with ammo-dependent weapons.

And that's what I use for my second-toughest lance. They all walk 120 meters/turn and lack jump jets, and all have their armor maxed out (possibly short 5 points in one or two rear locations).

Kind of a separate point, but when you max out armor, this means you're carrying enough rear armor that you can turn your back on most of an enemy force for a turn while you finish off a particularly obstinate mech.

 

[Andrew0Red]

I realize this isn't a popular position, but I like to play with mechs that at least vaguely resemble stock mechs.

That is unpopular, yes; I for one always end up min-maxing. But that does not mean I don't respect roleplayers; in fact more than us rollplayers. And I also suspect ye have slightly more fun than we do.

Your lance looks to be a strong compromise between fluff and force.

Kind of a separate point, but when you max out armor, this means you're carrying enough rear armor that you can turn your back on most of an enemy force for a turn while you finish off a particularly obstinate mech.

To bring in a little TT vs. HB: In TT, you're limited to 200% armour front plus rear. In HB, you can have 200% front and a separate 100% rear. As you are cathing on to, this removes an important trade-off.


And sorry we hi-jacked the other thread. We just, uhm, *really* like talking Battletech... :/

 

[Spartakus]

I too keep my mechs mostly stock. I more or less mentally add a size restriction on hardpoints - big guns replace big guns, small guns replace small guns or empty slots. And I don't add armor unless there is a canonical variant that's basically the same mech in my book, like the Jenner-F. And I never temper with JumpJets too.

My favourite is propably the Firestarter where you can play mix and match with all the small guns or add another ML and it's always great. I keep Decker in one for the entire campaign and he always leads the killboard.
Another build I like is the starting Blackjack with removing an ML + heatsink to upgrade an AC/2 to an AC/5.
The aforementioned Jenner-F is a great replacement for the Firestarter if you can't find one.

 

[Curtis Cook]

That is unpopular, yes; I for one always end up min-maxing. But that does not mean I don't respect roleplayers; in fact more than us rollplayers. And I also suspect ye have slightly more fun than we do.

I get very into the characters, and I started (40 pages of first draft) a fanfiction 'explaining' my unit in the computer game. The computer game ended up dovetailing fairly well with a unit (BaneForce) I created for a round-robin tournament back in 1992. I had a unit symbol, slogans ("an iron fist in an iron glove"), poster reminiscent of WWII's 'Kilroy was here' ("Who are The Bane?"), a leader, and a unit history going back to about a year before Kerensky disappeared. What I didn't have were supporting characters, and the game provided them for me… even though I 'adjusted' some of their backstories.

To bring in a little TT vs. HB: In TT, you're limited to 200% armour front plus rear. In HB, you can have 200% front and a separate 100% rear. As you are cathing on to, this removes an important trade-off.

I even 'invented' a technology mix. BaneMechs were created when it was discovered that if you combine some Star League-era technologies you get additional effects. Combining triple-strength myomer, endosteel skeletons, ferro-fibrous armor, double heat sinks, extended range jump jets (which act as normal range for mechs weighing more than their normal lifting limit), C3 and XL engines allowed for the construction of 'oversized' mechs that resembled gorillas and could carry just short of… 200% front armor and 100% rear, so I've been familiar with the concept for quite some time.

Total carriable weight was the chassis size times the square root of 3, and the number of available equipment slots was based on size classification from Ultralight (10-20 tons) up through Assault (85-100 tons) — assaults having the same number as the TT game's default and scaling down for smaller mechs. And XL engines were rotated slightly to move one engine slot from each side torso into the center torso, so there were no open slots in any BaneMech's center torso.

BaneMechs are difficult to construct, and are only built at one facility in the Deep Periphery, at a rate of 10 per year — 3 Light, 4 Medium, 2 Heavy and 1 Assault. Ultralight BaneMechs can be built theoretically, but in practice there's no reason to do so. They organize in companies of 10 and battalions of 40, with an extra company of 12 LAMs and a reinforced regiment of 52 AeroMechs attached at regimental level (24 for defending the fleet and 28 for ground support). The Bane technology gestalt proved incompatible with LAMs and AeroMechs/dropships.

Yes, I do have too much time on my hands.

And sorry we hi-jacked the other thread. We just, uhm, *really* like talking Battletech... :/

I simply cannot relate to this at all.

 

[Shark7]

I have two real favorite designs at the moment.

1. Firestarter with all 6 jump jets, almost max armor, 1 ML, 4 SL, 2 MG. I use a full lance of these and can easily win 3 skull missions, and often times 4-5 skull depending on terrain. I have been known to get a bit over-confident at times though.

2. Probably my new favorite, especially if you have something that can make holes in armor for it. Jagermech with 4 LB-2X ACs and 4 tons of ammo, 2 MLs. This thing just sits back and destroys anything that has been weakened by the rest of the lance. Always move it last.

 

[Doctor Machete]

A scout lance with four of my favorite setup:

 

[Hawk.eye]

Steiner descendant spotted

More on topic, by the time I have access to all those +++ weapons, I usually also have collected a bunch of Star League mechs (though in my current play-through, I have yet to find a Star League Atlas), so in my current play-through, the core of my scout lance is two Griffin 2Ns (one with two Snub-PPCs and two SL, the other with two LL, two SL and one SRM-6) and a PXH-1B with a PPC, four ML and two SL.

My current main battle lance is formed around two Highlander-732Bs, one with dual PPCs, dual SRM-6 and an Ultra AC-10, the other with dual UAC-5s, dual Snub-PPCs and one SRM-6 and a Warhammer-7A with dual LPL, dual MPL and dual ML.

Both lances are complimented (until I find more SL mechs) with whatever seems appropriate, be it a Marauder (always a good choice) with either an UAC-10 and 4 x ML or a Gauss and 4 x ML), an Atlas (Gauss, LRM-15, dual LL), a King Crab (dual Gauss, LL) or an Annihilator (Dual Gauss, dual UAC-2, dual ML, SPL).

And all my mechs have close to max armor and max JJ (yes, I am one of those that puts JJs on _anything_ I can get my hands on...and yes, if I could command tanks in this game, it'd be all Kangas, lol)

 

[Andrew0Red]

My current favourite:

I like it for a mixture of reasons. It fields both my LosTech+ weapons and my HB+ to boot, all without compromising performance. It has more firepower than a purer fire supporter, yet retains most of the LRMs (about 140% and 70%). The pyrotechnical display from 4 different weapons is cool ... as long as performance isn't hurt.

It is also reasonably heat-flexible. Sure, it runs a bit hot, but there is *never* any doubt as to how overheat should be handled.


Also, it meshes well with the rest of the lance. Stalker SRM, MAD 3R Ultra-20/melee, Stalker LRM. The Marauder is a bit frail for the frontline, so it's nice to have this Highlander as a back-up. ... That is also nice if you haven't memorised all the spawn-directions yet...

 

[Curtis Cook]

It fields both my LosTech+ weapons and my HB+ to boot, all without compromising performance. It has more firepower than a purer fire supporter, yet retains most of the LRMs (about 140% and 70%).

I'm afraid I don't understand quite a bit of this. I get 'LosTech+', but what are (is?) 'HB+'? It has 40% more firepower and 30% fewer LRMs than a 'purer fire supporter'… which would be what? A Stalker?

It is also reasonably heat-flexible. Sure, it runs a bit hot, but there is *never* any doubt as to how overheat should be handled.

I'm in doubt — move away and shut down the Snub?

Also, it meshes well with the rest of the lance. Stalker SRM….

I must admit an SRM Stalker never occurred to me, and I'm not sure why. I use SRM Kintaros and Archers, so the Stalker could carry considerably more armor than those. I just always associated the Atlas with close-in fighting at the 4 1/2-5 skull level.

The Marauder is a bit frail for the frontline, so it's nice to have this Highlander as a back-up. ... That is also nice if you haven't memorised all the spawn-directions yet...

Again, I'm not following the rationale here. If you aren't sure where the OpFor will be spawning, then… you need something with a ton of long-range weapons and a multi-targeting pilot to keep them occupied until you can vector your head-hunting Marauder and SRM Stalker to the rescue?

 

[Andrew0Red]

(First off, it is very much a case of "what I happen to have", more than what I dream of.)

I'm afraid I don't understand quite a bit of this. I get 'LosTech+', but what are (is?) 'HB+'? It has 40% more firepower and 30% fewer LRMs than a 'purer fire supporter'… which would be what? A Stalker?

In this day an age, creativity and innovation is where it's at, so being innovative with language and, say, abbreviations is good, riiiight?? HareBrained: The Snub PPC isn't from TableTop, so it is neither standard nor LosTech, so ... HB.

Since only LRMs can fire indirectly, we lose flexibility when we use line-of-fire-only weapons. So I consider LRMs "pure" and other long-range weapons not. But that may just be me. (As far as I can tell, the Stalker is best for that role, unless you have an extra Bullshark M3.)

I'm in doubt — move away and shut down the Snub?

Yep, not firing the snub PPC greatly reduces heat while only minimally reducing damage.

I must admit an SRM Stalker never occurred to me, and I'm not sure why. I use SRM Kintaros and Archers, so the Stalker could carry considerably more armor than those. I just always associated the Atlas with close-in fighting at the 4 1/2-5 skull level.

It was easy for me. The Stalker was available so much earlier than any of the others, save for the Awesome. And by then, I had figured out how lousy MLs are in HB. So I went for the Stalker with SRMs.

When I got a HGN-B, I immediately switched that into the front-line, of course. But then I noticed how little damage it did. Sure, half of that was in the form of Ultra-20 shots, but the total damage was low.

Here's the deal: A Stalker 3F, with full armour, full jump-jets, can be kitted out with the full 10 weapons ... and run cool. Sure, that requires 6-8 DHS and 6-8 tons of TEX, and movement isn't included. But that is still a lot of damage. With full ++dmg, it totals 498. The Highlander peaked out at 449. (Ultra++ is hard to come by before the end-game.)

Now, I get that there are benefits to doing damage in chunks of 100, rather than 35 and 12, and there is also much difference in taste. But 498 damage at 10 overheat, without ER Med++...

Again, I'm not following the rationale here. If you aren't sure where the OpFor will be spawning, then… you need something with a ton of long-range weapons and a multi-targeting pilot to keep them occupied until you can vector your head-hunting Marauder and SRM Stalker to the rescue?

Mostly, I want two tanks and don't consider the Marauder tough enough.

So it's not the distraction I'm after, it's having a 'Mech that doesn't have to run away from the incoming fire.

This may be a case of different play-styles or experience; I can only speak as to what I think.

 

[Shark7]

I'm afraid I don't understand quite a bit of this. I get 'LosTech+', but what are (is?) 'HB+'? It has 40% more firepower and 30% fewer LRMs than a 'purer fire supporter'… which would be what? A Stalker?

I'm in doubt — move away and shut down the Snub?

I must admit an SRM Stalker never occurred to me, and I'm not sure why. I use SRM Kintaros and Archers, so the Stalker could carry considerably more armor than those. I just always associated the Atlas with close-in fighting at the 4 1/2-5 skull level.

Again, I'm not following the rationale here. If you aren't sure where the OpFor will be spawning, then… you need something with a ton of long-range weapons and a multi-targeting pilot to keep them occupied until you can vector your head-hunting Marauder and SRM Stalker to the rescue?

LosTech in the old TableTop game would be specifically equipment that was used by the Star League, but went extinct due to the First and Second Succession Wars. On the Highlander design he depicts, the only true LosTech is the actual Chassis itself (the 732b being a Royal Highlander), and the Double Heat Sinks.

The HB+ tech, that being stuff not in the official TableTop game, like the LRM20+ and ++, also the LB-2X which did not exist in the Inner Sphere during the time frame the game is set in (it did appear later as Clan Tech), and the Snub PPC which is also from a later time period.

So honestly the best way to look at it is that true LosTech is only stuff that existed before the fall of the Star League, but was not available in the original BattleTech 3025 TT rules.

The Helm Memory Core discovery helped to make a lot of LosTech become rediscovered tech as well, but you really have to get into the lore to understand a lot of the differences.

 

[Curtis Cook]

(First off, it is very much a case of "what I happen to have", more than what I dream of.)

I like this approach; it's not what I'm using in my current career, but it's what I stuck with up until now.

(As far as I can tell, the Stalker is best for that role, unless you have an extra Bullshark M3.)

I so love the Bullshark. It showed up much later in this career than it did my first time through, so I just got one about 700 days in. I've set it up to run a bit hot, so it fires the regular weapons first, then Thumper, regular weapons, Thumper, regular weapons… pause and evaluate situation.

The Stalker was available so much earlier than any of the others, save for the Awesome.

Isn't it weird how these things turn out? In two (well 1 1/2 so far) careers and 3 1/2 campaigns I've found Stalkers to be as rare as hen's teeth. I play with 8 pieces to make a mech, and I've only ever assembled one Stalker, so I consider it to be a 'rare' mech. For me the non-LRM Awesomes are 'uncommon' and Atlases are bordering on 'common'… for an assault mech. I run into King Crabs, Annihilators and Banshees more often than I do Stalkers.

(Ultra++ is hard to come by before the end-game.)

Again, that has not been my experience. On average I'll pick up 2-3 Ultra-20++ before I find my first 'standard' Ultra-20, so I 'bank' them until I need them.

Now, I get that there are benefits to doing damage in chunks of 100, rather than 35 and 12, and there is also much difference in taste. But 498 damage at 10 overheat, without ER Med++...

I hear you, but with the Ultra++ doing chunks of 120 and using up two fewer tons, for me the equation is a bit different. I am a fan of the Ultra-2 and tend to use them in pairs, and of single LB-Xs (NOT the LB-X-20).

Thank you for explaining your position.
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I was surprised recently when I fought a mission on a map I'd never seen before and found my Ultra-2 Blackjack and LB-X-2 Shadow Hawk were beyond support range of the Centurion and Griffin. There's one other (desert) map where they can't support due to intervening terrain (base defense missions), but this was the first time I'd ever been out of range with those weapons… and it took two turns of movement to get back into range!

(Totally aside, but about 150 hours of play ago I ran across a forested mountain map that was absolutely huge. After defeating two waves of lances I assumed the mission was finished, but the computer seemed to think I had more enemies out there, so I spent twenty(!) turns moving around the periphery of the map and never encountered the rest of the OpFor… if they existed. That was one where if the lance didn't stick together they could easily have been cut off from supporting each other due to maybe eight ranges of mountains that could've intervened. In the end I had to abandon the mission, after even standing in place for four turns didn't cause the OpFor to show up, although they kept 'taking their turn'.)

Of course you're right about styles of play making a huge difference. I try to play with three mechs forward and one to the rear. Generally the fastest mech in the lance (or the one with the shortest-ranged weapons) gets the range-boosting sensors and the trailer gets the coordination module that lets the lance do aimed fire more frequently, while the other two get the mods that reduce pilot damage. Sometimes which weapons you run across or which mechs you assemble first can screw with that, as you mentioned above.

 

[Doctor Machete]

The Marauder is a bit frail for the frontline, so it's nice to have this Highlander as a back-up.

The Marauder is perfectly capable for the frontline, in fact it excels at the frontline. That's it, unless what you want it to do is to tank, to take incoming damage. But if what you want is to do kill while avoiding being damaged then the Marauder is your guy.

Spoiler

This is with a high-end build but it can be scaled down with worse equipment and weapons and still will do very well. One thing when mixing heavies with assaults is that you'll probably want to have Master Tactician in your assaults and Ace Pilot in your heavy (or medium).

I must admit an SRM Stalker never occurred to me, and I'm not sure why. I use SRM Kintaros and Archers, so the Stalker could carry considerably more armor than those. I just always associated the Atlas with close-in fighting at the 4 1/2-5 skull level

The 6×ML 4×SRM6 Stalker has been a staple of the game for a very long time, until the HM dlc and the patch that came along.

Since only LRMs can fire indirectly, we lose flexibility when we use line-of-fire-only weapons. So I consider LRMs "pure" and other long-range weapons not. But that may just be me. (As far as I can tell, the Stalker is best for that role, unless you have an extra Bullshark M3.)

The Highlander-733 makes a better LRM boat than the Stalker unless you want JJs.

 

[foamyesque]

Aside from a pretty standard ERML/UAC5 Royal Marauder my two favourite builds have been a quad Inferno Griffin 2N and a sextuple (yes, 6) SNPPC Atlas II.

The Inferno 2N's the best support machine in the game, forcing instant shutdowns for free called shots/cancelling someone's entire turn and having extreme mobility courtesy of JJs and a Griffin's standard oversized engine. Stack on a couple of TTS+++s to ensure you always get at least 7 of your 8 shots to land for 105 heat. You can even add useful conventional firepower in the energy slots -- I favour a Snub, with the other going to a TAG -- and load the rest of the space with melee mods for emergencies. Guarantees a dead mech every round if the rest of your lance has any firepower at all.

The Atlas II is just a brute. 750 alpha enabled by triple TEX++s and a pair of TTS+++s, triple JJs, and the rest of the space filled with sinks until the tonnage cap and then weightless melee mods atop. Highly likely to kill in one go even without a called shot, essentially guaranteed CT core if you *do* use a called shot, and anything that does survive eats a massive to-hit penalty (on top of whatever components you've shot off). And if you get too hot you're still an Atlas and can just put your fist through them instead for a turn.

Honourable mention to the Annihilator and it's ability (in conjunction with a TAG++) to get UAC/5s to oneshot headcappers. Beautiful machine that I especially love using on lunar maps because of the tremendous heat efficiency.