Fatherland Scenario

[Unit101]

Should not Corsica be Italian? And some more territories in France, that Italy had occupied (look on this map from wiki). At least Nice.

I am familiar with this map. Basically, there's a problem between annexed and occupied zone. If I am correct the dimilitarized zone was de jure part of Vichy France (any French to confirm this?), with the exception of course of smaller areas annexed by Italy from the start. Case Anton had a different outcome in this mod, I am not sure which, but Italian gains on Case Anton will not be present. If Corsica would be Italian, then France would have to be German because these gains were made at the same time. Although I agree with you that Nice would be a good candidate to transfer to Italy ro reflect Italy's influence.

Ticket Cookie, I transferred all Vichy divisions in North Africa to the Free French. This reflects the fact they either defected or surrendered to the Free French in the final stages of Operation Torch. Is this realistic? Also it seemed there was a Vichyist division in Madagascar, I gave that to Free France as well.

Meanwhile I am working on a Transylvanian war, the prelude is finished:

############################################################
#Transylvanian Crisis
###########################################################
# 90000000 # HUN ROM # Transylvania Crisis
# 90000001 # GER # German responds to Transylvania Crisis
# 90000002 # HUN # Prepare for war
# 90000003 # ROM # Prepare for war
# 90000004 # GER # Transylvanian Conference
# 90000005 # HUN # Transylvanian Conference: Hungarian response to Status Quo
# 90000006 # ROM # Transylvanian Conference: Romanian response to Status Quo
# 90000007 # HUN # Outcome of the conference			War possibility
# 90000008 # ROM # Outcome of the conference		        War possibility
# 90000009 # ROM # Germany supports Hungary!		        War possibility (indirect)
# 90000010 # HUN # Germany supports Romania!			War possibility (indirect)
# No conference was held:
# 90000011 # ROM # Romanian ultimatum (Romania instigated the crisis)
# 90000012 # HUN # Hungarian ultimatum (Hungary instigated the crisis)
# 90000013 # HUN # Hungarian response to the ultimatum
# 90000014 # ROM # Hungarians do not give in!			War possibility
# 90000015 # ROM # Romanian response to the ultimatum
# 90000016 # HUN # Romanians do not give in! 			War possibility
# War! (coming soon)
# War aftermath! (coming soon)

 

[Unit101]

I almost finished the war and war aftermath events for a Transylvanian war . The first minor war is almost done and it will weaken German hegemony and harm European stability, unless Germany is really lucky.

 

[Ticket Cookie]

I am familiar with this map. Basically, there's a problem between annexed and occupied zone. If I am correct the dimilitarized zone was de jure part of Vichy France (any French to confirm this?), with the exception of course of smaller areas annexed by Italy from the start. Case Anton had a different outcome in this mod, I am not sure which, but Italian gains on Case Anton will not be present. If Corsica would be Italian, then France would have to be German because these gains were made at the same time. Although I agree with you that Nice would be a good candidate to transfer to Italy ro reflect Italy's influence.

De jure, the Vichy territories don't change at all, even the loss of Alsace-Lorraine was'nt acknowledged by the French State. And de facto, only some (very small) montainous areas was annexed by Italy in 1940 because the French army manage this front very well, and the Italians were not making any progress at the armistice. Personally I think that France and Italy should keep their pre-war borders in game, and that an event chain like your Transylvanian War should occur for the sake of Nice, (and Corsica/Chambéry or even Grenoble if Italy manage that war very well), but with more chances of a peacefull diplomatic solution.

Ticket Cookie, I transferred all Vichy divisions in North Africa to the Free French. This reflects the fact they either defected or surrendered to the Free French in the final stages of Operation Torch. Is this realistic? Also it seemed there was a Vichyist division in Madagascar, I gave that to Free France as well.

Pretty much. It's what they mostly do in reality =)
Perhaps add an INF division to VIC to illustrate the few peoples that prefered take boats to mainland, like some did historically.

(in fact last time I played the mod Vichy had colonial units in most of his ex-colonies, in Guyanne, Guadeloupe and New Caledonia too, which should also go to Free France.)

 

[warpedmind]

can you give us a full changelog on the first page?

 

[Unit101]

Yes for now the Italian-French border stays as it is. I believe the areas Italy annexed pre-1942 are too minimal to display. Of course, Italy's influence could increase as time goes by.

Vichy colonial units are now under control of Free France, I hope I didn't miss any. Also, there are now Allied divisons lost in continental Europe. But some air squadrons or naval divisions might still have the wrong base.

can you give us a full changelog on the first page?

I must admit I didn't really pay attention to this for a long time. I started making a changelog for the last update, and I will do this from now on. You can see it in the first post of this thread.

 

[TremblingBlue]

Yes for now the Italian-French border stays as it is. I believe the areas Italy annexed pre-1942 are too minimal to display. Of course, Italy's influence could increase as time goes by.

Vichy colonial units are now under control of Free France, I hope I didn't miss any. Also, there are now Allied divisons lost in continental Europe. But some air squadrons or naval divisions might still have the wrong base.



I must admit I didn't really pay attention to this for a long time. I started making a changelog for the last update, and I will do this from now on. You can see it in the first post of this thread.

In the space of a few years it can't be expected that Italy could increase its territory on mainland France...the default claims and Corsica are the farthest I think it should go. Just doesn't add up otherwise, without proper cause (historical claims).

 

[Aetherius]

The mods sounds really great ! If you need help, ask me .
Just a question : Can Hitler dies ?

 

[Unit101]

In the space of a few years it can't be expected that Italy could increase its territory on mainland France...the default claims and Corsica are the farthest I think it should go. Just doesn't add up otherwise, without proper cause (historical claims).

I agree with you. But if there would be a war between Vichy France and the Axis, Italy would probably occupy the same areas it occupied in 1942.
By the way I didn't reply to your PM but I did add your thoughts to the "to-do" list for that map, I'm going to edit a few things on monday or tuesday.

The mods sounds really great ! If you need help, ask me .
Just a question : Can Hitler dies ?

Any help and any ideas are appreciated. And yes I am thinking of a natural death of Hitler, but maybe also the possibility to continue playing with Hitler.

 

[Aetherius]

Maybe an event about Hitler's Parkinson, in 1951 by exemple, with two choices : Force him to retire in an hospital, or leave him at the head of the state.
I also suggest you to allow the player to reunite all the russian successor states in a restored tsardom, or something like that.

 

[Zhetone]

Maybe an event about Hitler's Parkinson, in 1951 by exemple, with two choices : Force him to retire in an hospital, or leave him at the head of the state.
I also suggest you to allow the player to reunite all the russian successor states in a restored tsardom, or something like that.

If he remains it should probably cause havoc for the Germany player, considering that having a ruler with Parkinson's isn't good when it's a dictatorship.

 

[Aetherius]

After Hitler's retirement, a struggle for the power might happen, leading to a three-sides civil war, between, I don't know, Hard-liners, "light", and anti-nazis ...

 

[clone1337]

I think it would be more like after Stalins dead. The inner Circle fights against each other, some get killed ( Beria ), some other achiev more power. But a civil war? her
Hitlers words in his testamend would be enough to solve the crisis for some time, the party was hitler and hitler was the party. So as near to history as possibly, the idea of Dorniz ( or another grand military leader ) would become Reichspräsident and Göring or Goebbels Reichskanzler. There would be no new führer.

 

[Aetherius]

So, teach me the mysterious way of making events and I will do them !

 

[warpedmind]

I think it would be more like after Stalins dead. The inner Circle fights against each other, some get killed ( Beria ), some other achiev more power. But a civil war? her
Hitlers words in his testamend would be enough to solve the crisis for some time, the party was hitler and hitler was the party. So as near to history as possibly, the idea of Dorniz ( or another grand military leader ) would become Reichspräsident and Göring or Goebbels Reichskanzler. There would be no new führer.

sounds plausible

im pretty sure that göring would be reichskanzler

 

[Unit101]

So, teach me the mysterious way of making events and I will do them !

It's essentially a work of trial and error. When I started writing events they were often completely flawed. Today, they are probably not optimal but I can usually write tens of events without having to test them too often. Darkest Hour is very event modding friendly, and the debug functions of 1.3 are totally awesome.

My advice to you is to read the "event commands" file in the modding documentation directory. This is my "bible" which I always use for reference. My second advice is to "read" events from the game or other mods. Then just test your own event and see what happens in-game. My last advice is to download Notepad++ (it's for free), you will hate yourself for all those days you used the regular notepad or something like that.

About the succession of Hitler: in my opinion there should be several options. Some people prefer Hitler to be in charge so at least for human players I wish this option to be there. I believe there should be a natural AND a non-natural event for Hitler's death.
He can be succeeded by the following people (after Hitler's death the HoS and HoG will not be the same, so the ones listed below are probably HoS)
Göring,
Bormann,
Himmler (he'll auto-destroy Germany in one breath but whatever),
Goebbles,
Dönitz,
Reinhard Heydrich (if still alive, like in the Fatherland book)
Ludwig Beck (after 20 July-like group killed Hitler)
Maybe even a return of the monarchy (would screw up with most of the Nazi-related event though, similar case with Ludwig Beck)
Erwin Rommel (which will give you 100 free Panzer divisions which are self-sufficient regarding supplies and oil, you do no longer have to care about logistics! )

These are just my suggestions, nothing definite. I haven't written any succession files. Anyone who feels inspired, I'd love to see these events and I will implement them in the game, proper credits will be given of course. :happy:

 

[Zhetone]

Wouldn't Rommel be dead, though? Or did the attempted coup never take place?

 

[warpedmind]

himmler and goebbles are just amateurs and should not come into power, mainly because more suitable nazis would just outplay them

but if they come to power it should go with massive negative effects


göring, rommel, heydrich, beck, bormann and dönitz all sound pretty good

i think a return to monarchy is not realistic


ps: if the player decides to force hitler in his office it should come with negative effects, massive negative effects and should only be done for flavour (come on, hitler is fucking old and has parkinson...)

 

[Samilou]

himmler and goebbles are just amateurs and should not come into power, mainly because more suitable nazis would just outplay them

but if they come to power it should go with massive negative effects


göring, rommel, heydrich, beck, bormann and dönitz all sound pretty good

i think a return to monarchy is not realistic


ps: if the player decides to force hitler in his office it should come with negative effects, massive negative effects and should only be done for flavour (come on, hitler is fucking old and has parkinson...)

Both Bormann and Göring were infamous for incompetence even within their own party. Goebbels on the other hand was considered a very Hitler-like person, although perhaps not the genius he is sometimes depicted as.

 

[Panzergruppe]

himmler and goebbles are just amateurs and should not come into power, mainly because more suitable nazis would just outplay them

but if they come to power it should go with massive negative effects


göring, rommel, heydrich, beck, bormann and dönitz all sound pretty good

Actually, Himmler -- who built up an organisation from a few hundred people to several millions -- was actually a very competent man, as well as Göbbles who was a fullbred politician. Say what you want about their methods, but they wouldn't have very much difficulty to head a very large organisation, because they did. Göring and Rommel on the other hand, were perhaps able officers, but it's improbable that they would pull Germany together (or worse, be puppets of other, more knowledgable politicians). Politicians they were not.

 

[Unit101]

It doesn't really matter how competent someone is to be in charge. We can always call them "incompetent" or "barking buffoon" . Well obviously some choices are more likely than others. This discussion on succession is too limited. Of course the Head of State can be picked and it will have some event effects, but there's more to this. Every leader comes with a cabinet. If Karl Dönitz is picked as leader, who will be the other ministers? The Flensburg Government? This is just an example.


As for Erwin Rommel, I don't know whether or not he would be dead. Nor about the (other) 20th July plotters. Of course it would be realistic to say there was resistance among the higher ups. But since Germany was winning - not losing - after 1942, how many plots would not have happened? How many assassination attempts were oppertunistic which would never have happed if Hitler hadn't screwed up everything (and the Allies weren't so damn strong)? I don't mind if all 20 July plotters are dead (in fact they are dormant right now because I used the inc file of the 1945 scenario). But I wouldn't mind if they were alive and would die later in a future plot.

It's not that I haven't given any of this a proper thought, but I haven't made a definite decison. Like I said I will implement any suitable succession chain for Germany, or write one myself when I feel like finishing that part. So if anyone feels welcome to present an event I'd love to see it

Just keep in mind the earliest POD is the fact that Reinhard Heydrich survived the assassination attempt against him. That means more (plausible) divergences happened between 1942 and 1948.

Meanwhile, I have added/changed minister and leader files for the Cossacks and Tatarstan. With special thanks to the Kaiserreich team!