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unmerged(98307)

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Can you reate an option to I Create a Vlassovist Russia?I have here a map with my proposed borders if you wanna :)
We're open for all possible events to happen in the game, but only if they more or less realistically fit within our created mod set-up. We were thinking of having the Russians getting more autonomy eventually, with a role for the 'Lokot Republic'. Perhaps Vlassov can be pushed in somewhere in this idea?
 

Panzergruppe

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We're open for all possible events to happen in the game, but only if they more or less realistically fit within our created mod set-up. We were thinking of having the Russians getting more autonomy eventually, with a role for the 'Lokot Republic'. Perhaps Vlassov can be pushed in somewhere in this idea?

Yay! :D
 

Gukpa

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We're open for all possible events to happen in the game, but only if they more or less realistically fit within our created mod set-up. We were thinking of having the Russians getting more autonomy eventually, with a role for the 'Lokot Republic'. Perhaps Vlassov can be pushed in somewhere in this idea?

Well,is Realistic,because Germans was planning to Divide Russian when the war ends,the Russians see Germans as Liberators,not as conquerors,as you see,200 Russians Joined Wehrmacht :D

So I can made to you three Borders:

Light,if the Player Wanna an Weak Russia
Medium,The Proposed
and
Great,if the player Wanna Russia STRONK!
 

unmerged(378990)

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the Russians see Germans as Liberators,not as conquerors,as you see,200 Russians Joined Wehrmacht :D


bullshit, a huge reason for the axis defeat on the eastern front was the exact opposite of what you said
and 200 is nothing before millions that fought against the axis
 

Gukpa

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bullshit, a huge reason for the axis defeat on the eastern front was the exact opposite of what you said
and 200 is nothing before millions that fought against the axis

Bullshit nothing,the Situation of Soviet Union was just terrible,as you can see,Stalin is an Opressor!Will be just EPIC to see him killed and the Soviet Flag beying lowered from Moscow
 

unmerged(98307)

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Can we keep it civilized, please?

I can understand it's a sensitive subject, but we've represented the situation as bad for the Russians, too, atleast when Hitler is still alive. But whenever there is trouble for the Reich, or when a more rational succesor comes, the Russians get off better.
 

Gukpa

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Can we keep it civilized, please?

I can understand it's a sensitive subject, but we've represented the situation as bad for the Russians, too, atleast when Hitler is still alive. But whenever there is trouble for the Reich, or when a more rational succesor comes, the Russians get off better.

Well,ok ok,but Can I post here the suggested Maps ? :)
 

WarHawk109

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hitler would have never allowed a russian state to exist (except perhaps a rump state in siberia), for the simple fact that russian lands were earmarked for german colonization.
 

Gukpa

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hitler would have never allowed a russian state to exist (except perhaps a rump state in siberia), for the simple fact that russian lands were earmarked for german colonization.

Nope,as you can see in the Book: World war II of Phillip Mason,this is all lies,even the Ostplan East cannot be afirmed -_-

EDIT:If you see,have to threads in DH Forum about this,one is in Suggestions and Improvement section,both talking about Hitler Creating Russia
 
Last edited:

Gukpa

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First: Russian small 40% of IA chance to accept
1011697_448841328545213_1116277505_n.jpg


Second:Acceptable Russia 65% of IA chance to accept
1003989_448841331878546_1397194351_n.jpg


Third:Russia STRONG 5% of IA chance to accept
1004407_448841321878547_2003284458_n.jpg
 

WarHawk109

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considering that hitler forbade any mention of forming a russian army in his presence (until himmler convinced him in 1944), and his dream of a german empire extending as far as the urals, a vlassovist russia should only be an option after the death of hitler event, and if things are going badly in the east (soviet invasion for instance).
 

Gukpa

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considering that hitler forbade any mention of forming a russian army in his presence (until himmler convinced him in 1944), and his dream of a german empire extending as far as the urals, a vlassovist russia should only be an option after the death of hitler event, and if things are going badly in the east (soviet invasion for instance).

Nope,the negotiations started when Vlassov Defected,and have two great posts about this,if you wanna,put your idea in there.We are here to talk about the borders of Free Russia,like proposed
 

KaiserBeer

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Himmler faction: More autonomy to russian puppets. Perhaps balkanization of former russian lands with things like "Republic Novgorod" and "Cacasus Republic" under a puppet russian politician. As long they keep shipping their resources to Germany(oil, rares and supplies to be historical), they should have little trouble.

Bormann aligned faction: Harsh measures and continuation of the occupation under central german figures (Reichskomissariat). The dude just didn't like Slavs. In fact, most of the harsh occupation policies in the east was proposed by him.

Military cabinet: Something along Himmler line, perhaps with more autonomy and favouring more conservative figures (cossaks or what remained of them)

The question is that there should have events to simulate the german failure to colonize russian lands. During the war they tried to try it in a small scale in Poland, but they found out that most germans were not happy to leave their homes in order to colonize some backward place, thousands miles away from were they lived. If that failed even in a small scale, that would no happen in a large scale, too. So, the player should have options to decide what to do when realize that complete control of the east is impossible. Depeding what/who succeds after Hitler death, I'd suggest some things in the line suggested above.
 

Gukpa

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Himmler faction: More autonomy to russian puppets. Perhaps balkanization of former russian lands with things like "Republic Novgorod" and "Cacasus Republic" under a puppet russian politician. As long they keep shipping their resources to Germany(oil, rares and supplies to be historical), they should have little trouble.

Bormann aligned faction: Harsh measures and continuation of the occupation under central german figures (Reichskomissariat). The dude just didn't like Slavs. In fact, most of the harsh occupation policies in the east was proposed by him.

Military cabinet: Something along Himmler line, perhaps with more autonomy and favouring more conservative figures (cossaks or what remained of them)

The question is that there should have events to simulate the german failure to colonize russian lands. During the war they tried to try it in a small scale in Poland, but they found out that most germans were not happy to leave their homes in order to colonize some backward place, thousands miles away from were they lived. If that failed even in a small scale, that would no happen in a large scale, too. So, the player should have options to decide what to do when realize that complete control of the east is impossible. Depeding what succeds after Hitler death, I'd suggest some things in the line suggested above.

I still defending the creation of Russia,but I think is interesting to add options to if the player wanna,Or Balkanize Russia or Create Reichkomissariats (but ONLY if still have the option to Create Russia with this Three proposed borders)
 

Ticket Cookie

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I'm not a specialist on the subject, that's why I will post my thought on the Russian question here, in the hope that others could help me and tell me if it is plausible or not. If we know that it could be sensitive, remember that our main goal in the Fatherland team is to provide provide a content both realistic and enjoyable for us and our players, because DH is a game ;)

At the start of the mod, there is the different RKs, the Lokot Republic (under Kaminsky/RONA) and a military zone at the border with the Soviet Union wich include Moscow. (and a Cossack State, wich independance is guaranteed by Germany but not directly controled)
Until the death of Hitler, there is already implemented events wich allow the Lokot Republic to ask Germany for more territories, but that's only a few non important provinces bordering it.
Howewer, if WW3 start, then I think Germany could give more autonomy and territories to the regime, in order to let them deal with the partisans and perhaps raise some troops (militia-quality) for the war effort. But nothing to significant, and not Moscow obviously.

After the death of Hitler, depending on who will take the power, Germany could decide to create a form of Russian state espcially if WW3 start, in wich the Lokot Republic would be integrated. But this state wouldn't be fully trusted by Germany and control perhaps no more than half of the German directly administred zone that you could see at the start of the game, moving with frontline; (in term of unit, infantry/cavalry/militia, no armored or motorized). I'm not sure about what to do with Moscow, Hitler could have destroyed it before he die (I think Tonie have a project on this).

As leadership, I see a choice between Konstantin Voskoboinik (HoS)+ Bronislav Kaminsky (HoG) and their administration from the Lokot (see in game) or Andrei Vlassov from the Committee for the Liberation of the Peoples of Russia (KONR), with perhaps Constantine Kromiadi as HoG.
It would also lack leaders: is there any russian (or else :happy:) that could make a list?
I have found: Andrei Vlassov, Constantine Kromiadi, Boris Shteifon, Mikhail Skorodumov, Anatoly Rogozhin, Anton Tourkoul, Mikhail Meandrov, Sergei Bunyachenko, Ivan Frolov, Abram Dragomirov, Vladimir Boyarsky, Bronislav Kaminsky.
There is also Semyon Trofimovich Bychkov for the air force.
That's a begining but more would be better :)

I'm also thinking of Germany sending a military mission to the Cossack state. That would give them some blueprints, a military leader and a techteam, and in german eyes makes them more useful in the event of a war with Soviet Union. For command it, I see Helmuth von Pannwitz, but I welcome any other name if there is ideas.

I love this mod, if you guys keep at it, this could be the next kaiserreich

Thanks a lot!
(especially since KR is a kind of legend and we far away it polished and eventfull stage :) )
 

WarHawk109

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Nope,the negotiations started when Vlassov Defected,and have two great posts about this,if you wanna,put your idea in there.We are here to talk about the borders of Free Russia,like proposed
Hitler was extremely slavaphobic, and VERY wary of Vlassov. Forming the RLA wasn't even considered until september 1944 (when things were going very badly in the east). considering this mod has a point of diversion in 1943 on the eastern front, there would never had been a need for the RLA, and the Nazi mass murder/slave apparatus was of course in full swing by this point (50-60% of Russian population was slated for extermination in Generalplan Ost).
 

Gukpa

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Hitler was extremely slavaphobic, and VERY wary of Vlassov. Forming the RLA wasn't even considered until september 1944 (when things were going very badly in the east). considering this mod has a point of diversion in 1943 on the eastern front, there would never had been a need for the RLA, and the Nazi mass murder/slave apparatus was of course in full swing by this point (50-60% of Russian population was slated for extermination in Generalplan Ost).

"Hitler was extremely Slavaphobic"

russians-in-wehrmacht3.jpg


"Forming the RLA wasn't even Considered Until September 1944"

Read this plox
a-segunda-guerra-mundial-philippe-masson_MLB-O-206787609_1664.jpg


"Extermination of Generalplan ost"

YOU ARE DEAF?I said that the Generalplan ost cannot be considered,even that Germany do not beaten soviet Union in Real Life,and this plan has been changed so many times!! :mad:
 

KaiserBeer

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Well, Hitler was certainly slavophobic, although Bormann was more than him and some his opinions influenced Hitler in the matter. And Gukpa, it's not polite to lecture people when they aren't wrong.

On a other case, as I said before, Germany failed to colonize even small pieces of land in Poland. Nothing suggets that they would succed in a much more larger scale like Russia. I think that for sake of realism, the game should began with the Reichskomissariat, then certain events should fire to the player, regarding the failed tries of colonization, so the player may reavail his police. Examples of policies I gave above, as many other players.
 

WarHawk109

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I'm sorry but history does not agree with you:

wiki said:
During Operation Barbarossa, the Axis invasion of the Soviet Union, millions of Red Army prisoners of war (POWs) were arbitrarily executed in the field by the invading German armies (in particular by the Waffen SS), died under inhuman conditions in German prisoner of war camps and during death marches, or were shipped to concentration camps for execution. The Germans killed an estimated 2.8 million Soviet POWs through starvation, exposure and summary execution, in a mere eight months over 1941 and 1942.[10] According to the US Holocaust Museum, by the winter of 1941, "starvation and disease resulted in mass death of unimaginable proportions". Up to 500,000 were killed in the concentration camps.[11]

Soviet civilian populations in the occupied areas were also heavily persecuted (in addition to the barbarity of the Eastern Front frontline warfare manifesting itself in episodes such as the siege of Leningrad in which more than 1.2 million civilians died). Thousands of peasant villages across Russia, Belarus and Ukraine were annihilated by German troops. During the occupation, Russia's Leningrad, Pskov and Novgorod region lost around a quarter of its population. Some[who?] estimate that as many as one quarter of all Soviet civilian deaths (five million Russian, three million Ukrainian and 1.5 million Belarusian) deaths at the hands of the Nazis and their allies were racially motivated.[12] The Russian Academy of Science in 1995 reported civilian victims in the USSR, including Jews at German hands, totaled 13.7 million dead, 20% of the 68 million persons in the occupied USSR, including 7.4 million victims of Nazi genocide and reprisals; 2.2 million deaths of persons deported to Germany for forced labor; and 4.1 million famine and disease deaths in occupied territory. There were an additional estimated 3.0 million famine deaths in the territory not under German occupation. These losses are for the entire territory of the USSR in its 1946–1991 borders, including territories annexed in 1939–40.[13] The deaths of 8.2 million Soviet civilians including Jews, were documented by the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims#Enemy_nationals

20% of the population of occupied soviet territory exterminated. Given another 5 or ten years or so of occupation there wouldn't be anyone left! :confused:

wiki said:
Adolf Hitler permitted the idea of the Russian Liberation Army to circulate in propaganda literature so long as no real formations of the sort were permitted. As a result, some Red Army soldiers surrendered or defected in hopes of joining an army that did not yet exist. Many Soviet prisoners of war (POWs) volunteered to serve under the German command just in order to get out from Nazi POW camps, notorious for starving the Soviet prisoners to death.

Meanwhile the newly captured Soviet general Andrei Andreevich Vlasov, along with his German and Russian allies, was desperately lobbying the German high command, hoping that a green light would be given for the formation of a real armed force that would be exclusively under Russian control.

Hitler's staff repeatedly rejected these appeals with hostility, refusing to even consider them. Still, Vlasov and his allies reasoned that Hitler would eventually come to realize the futility of a war against the USSR with the hostility of the Russian people and respond to Vlasov's demands.

...

The ROA did not officially exist until autumn of 1944, after Heinrich Himmler persuaded a very reluctant Hitler to permit the formation of 10 Russian Liberation Army divisions.

Also the eastern conscripts were notoriously unreliable. They promptly surrendered whenever they made contact with the enemy. So much so they they were sent to the western front, and were actually present during the D-Day invasion. They didn't perform much better regardless. :lol:

I have a hard time accepting a Vlassovist state because of the very well documented mass atrocities that were committed by the Germans against the soviets. Slavs were not much higher than jews as far as the Nazis were concerned. :mad: