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Xar64

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Yeah, VE III died in 1947 in OTL, we can suppose he could survive a couple of years without exile but he was born in 1869
Also, Paolo Thaon di Revel is too old to be Italian republican head of state, he died in 1948 in OTL and he was born in 1859

My idea:
-in OTL there was an heir for Mussolini too: Galeazzo Ciano, Duce's son-in-law, that was friend with King's heir Umberto di Savoia and they were agree to be afraid of Germany and Hitler

- new chain of event for Italian great council of fascism:
1) 1948, VE III die, new king the anti-nazi Umberto II
2) conflict new king - old duce:
a) "Fascism ended its usefulness! Avanti Savoia!" --> Umberto II HoS - Ciano HoG --> old industrialist chain of event
b) "I'm tired to have a king above me! Remove the king!" --> Mussolini/another fascist HoS - Mussolini HoG
c) "King is a traitor and Mussolini a failure! We need new blood for Italian race!" --> old radical fascist chain of event


(Sorry for my English, but I'm Italian and I do not go well together :p)
Thank you for the reply pakotorino! I have many ideas on the mod, but for now I will only name a few types:

According to me the possible choices for the Mussolini succession (for death or arrest)
could be among these:

1- Edmondo Rossoni (Fascism of the Left)

2- Dino Grandi (fascism pro-usa and pro-uk, is comparable to Molotov in URSS, and
He was loved by the house savoy, in particular VE III)
It could be a "modern and moderate fascist"

3- Junio Valerio Borghese (radical Fascism)

4- Galeazzo Ciano (Fascism old style, pro-germany, but non antisemitic)

5- Roberto Farinacci (pro-germany and antisemitic)
 
Last edited:

Pandrea

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There is a problem

Umberto II was so strongly anti fascist because Italy lost the war, in this scenario Italy is on the "winning" side, so his anti fascism would be no as radical as OTL
Actually, no. Umberto II hated Mussolini and fear Germany since march on Rome and Hitler's rise. Of course, he made nothing against Mussolini before war because his father, the king, was a coward and Mussolini was too much popular. But Umberto thought about a golpe against Mussolini in 1938, for example

And in Fatherland scenario Italy is a loser on the winning side. It lost colonies, couldn't win against Greece, didn't take Nice and Savoy... I think there're enough reason to want a chang of regime
4- Galeazzo Ciano (Fascism old style, pro-germany, but non antisemitic)
Ok for others (Dino Grandi like an Italian Molotov is perfect!), but Galeazzo Ciano was anti-german since before war.

200px-Amadeo_Aosta3rd_01.jpg

There's a fascist heir, too. Prince Amedeo, duke of Aosta and viceroy of Italian East Africa, was second in the line of succession after Umberto before birth of Umberto's son. Mussolini liked him and he liked fascim. Unfortunately, Amedeo died in 1942 as a British prisoner, but we can save him if we need him. For example: "After German victory in Stalingrad battle, British feared a German total victory and released Amedeo as appeasement".
And his father, Prince Emanuele Filiberto duke of Aosta, was a pro-fascist general that could substitute VIttorio Emanuele III as a fascist King of Italy if VE III fight the march on Rome. So, Umberto II vs Mussolini clash in Fatherland can ended with a king's victory and a new HoG (I propose Galeazzo Ciano) or a Duce's victory and a new fascist king, Amedeo I (or Amedeo X if we want to consider previous Amedeo in House Savoy) or his brother Aimone I (or Aimone II)
 

CrazedWalrus

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A lot of the larger events, such as the ones for the integration of Poland and others, seem to be glitched. The events themselves work just fine, but the popups are blacked out at the bottom where the decisions should be. Decisions can still be selected, but you can't wee which decision you're picking. On the even larger popups, parts of the text are even blacked out.
 

pascuales

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Why make an event about a Fascist coup in Argentina when Peron was already a fascist?
As an Argentine I feel Peron is mistyped in Darkest Hour. His 'brand' of Fascism was more pro-worker and granted women voting rights, but he utilized nationalism and came to power after an anti-communist, 'neutralist' and anti-oligarch coup in 1943.

Peron formed the Labourist Party which was National Syndicalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(Argentina)

"In power, the Nacionalistas pursued a policy of social justice by supporting the appointment of Juan Peron (who later became President) as the head of the department of labour on 28 October 1943. Perón declared that the Nacionalista government was committed to a "revolution" that would keep national wealth in Argentina, give workers their dues, improving living standards without provoking class conflict, and attacked both communism and international capitalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacionalismo_(Argentine_political_movement)
 
Last edited:

pakotorino

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Yeah, VE III died in 1947 in OTL, we can suppose he could survive a couple of years without exile but he was born in 1869
Also, Paolo Thaon di Revel is too old to be Italian republican head of state, he died in 1948 in OTL and he was born in 1859

My idea:
-in OTL there was an heir for Mussolini too: Galeazzo Ciano, Duce's son-in-law, that was friend with King's heir Umberto di Savoia and they were agree to be afraid of Germany and Hitler

- new chain of event for Italian great council of fascism:
1) 1948, VE III die, new king the anti-nazi Umberto II
2) conflict new king - old duce:
a) "Fascism ended its usefulness! Avanti Savoia!" --> Umberto II HoS - Ciano HoG --> old industrialist chain of event
b) "I'm tired to have a king above me! Remove the king!" --> Mussolini/another fascist HoS - Mussolini HoG
c) "King is a traitor and Mussolini a failure! We need new blood for Italian race!" --> old radical fascist chain of event

(Sorry for my English, but I'm Italian and I do not go well together :p)
Thank you for the reply pakotorino! I have many ideas on the mod, but for now I will only name a few types:

According to me the possible choices for the Mussolini succession (for death or arrest)
could be among these:

1- Edmondo Rossoni (Fascism of the Left)

2- Dino Grandi (fascism pro-usa and pro-uk, is comparable to Molotov in URSS, and
He was loved by the house savoy, in particular VE III)
It could be a "modern and moderate fascist"

3- Junio Valerio Borghese (radical Fascism)

4- Galeazzo Ciano (Fascism old style, pro-germany, but non antisemitic)

5- Roberto Farinacci (pro-germany and antisemitic)

Guys, your ideas are very interesting.
I'm italian too, so if you want send me a PM we can discuss in our mothertongue without problems.
If you're able to write events, i hope we can made a collaboration. If you aren't able let me known a sketch of events and i'll made it.
 

pakotorino

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A lot of the larger events, such as the ones for the integration of Poland and others, seem to be glitched. The events themselves work just fine, but the popups are blacked out at the bottom where the decisions should be. Decisions can still be selected, but you can't wee which decision you're picking. On the even larger popups, parts of the text are even blacked out.

The events are mutuated from EoD Mod.
You can find some information here : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ess-new-version.701724/page-110#post-22582748
 

pakotorino

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@pakotorino

Speaking of all this, how would you feel about Prince Louis Ferdinand (either as SC or PA) as an HOS option for Wehrmacht Germany?

Mmmhh .... Wehrmacht path is just a sketch for now.
If you, or other users, have a cabinet in mind, let me known your opinion, thank you !

Why make an event about a Fascist coup in Argentina when Peron was already a fascist?
As an Argentine I feel Peron is mistyped in Darkest Hour. His 'brand' of Fascism was more pro-worker and granted women voting rights, but he utilized nationalism and came to power after an anti-communist, 'neutralist' and anti-oligarch coup in 1943.

Peron formed the Labourist Party which was National Syndicalist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(Argentina)

"In power, the Nacionalistas pursued a policy of social justice by supporting the appointment of Juan Peron (who later became President) as the head of the department of labour on 28 October 1943. Perón declared that the Nacionalista government was committed to a "revolution" that would keep national wealth in Argentina, give workers their dues, improving living standards without provoking class conflict, and attacked both communism and international capitalism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nacionalismo_(Argentine_political_movement)

Thank you for link, i read them with attention.
 

LordInsane

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A monarchist move makes sense for Wehrmacht Germany - the current path makes a degree of sense, too, and isn't really incompatible. I alleviated my logical issues with the move (though not the lack of reaction) by simply appending a comment in the description of the junta event about seeking support from Weimar politicians and parties as a source of alternate legitimacy and political organisation after, well, having purged a huge chunk of the NSDAP leadership, and that leading to pressures on the junta to do certain things.
 

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The Monarchy is also probable, because the nobility was becoming more and more disgusted with the Nazi leadership. They were right to fear it, because the party philosophy was against the noble class.
Although I don't think they would reintroduce the Hohenzollern main branch. I am not that sure about that.
A good event would be the burial of the body of Wilhelm II. if a new Emperor has been chosen. (Wilhelm II. wished not to return to Germany even in death, only monarchy was restored.)
There could be 3-4 choices as an Emperor. One would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph,_Prince_of_Hohenzollern-Emden this choice could calm down the radical wing of the Reich and the SS.
The main branch could become a friendly gesture towards the Allies. (I think Louis Ferdinand was quite democratic and liberal.) Although this would enrage the far right.
A great choice would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupprecht,_Crown_Prince_of_Bavaria
While not young, but he is a notable commander, who is the son of the last Bavarian king. Italy (if it run by the King, or if the King is still there would make an alliance with him, and support him greatly. The German Empire and Italy could actually have a closer tie than the Axis, and even reform the Central Powers. It is not that ASB. The Central Powers was seen as an equal alliance, and the Axis was about Germany and its puppets.)
Umberto II. and the heir of Rupprecht would mean a new generation and a push towards a more relaxed Europe, but this does not mean, that either of them would join USA, or the Allies.
 
Last edited:

Eginhard 38

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A great choice would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupprecht,_Crown_Prince_of_Bavaria
While not young, but he is a notable commander, who is the son of the last Bavarian king. Italy (if it run by the King, or if the King is still there would make an alliance with him, and support him greatly. The German Empire and Italy could actually have a closer tie than the Axis, and even reform the Central Powers. It is not that ASB. The Central Powers was seen as an equal alliance, and the Axis was about Germany and its puppets.)
Umberto II. and the heir of Rupprecht would mean a new generation and a push towards a more relaxed Europe, but this does not mean, that either of them would join USA, or the Allies.

A few days ago, I learnt by chance that Rupprecht was also the head of the Jacobite line of succession, through his mother, who died in 1919. Thus, he could have claimed the British crown as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_succession

I know nothing about the Fatherland lore, but this could fuel your discussion a little bit.
 

pakotorino

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A monarchist move makes sense for Wehrmacht Germany - the current path makes a degree of sense, too, and isn't really incompatible. I alleviated my logical issues with the move (though not the lack of reaction) by simply appending a comment in the description of the junta event about seeking support from Weimar politicians and parties as a source of alternate legitimacy and political organisation after, well, having purged a huge chunk of the NSDAP leadership, and that leading to pressures on the junta to do certain things.

The Monarchy is also probable, because the nobility was becoming more and more disgusted with the Nazi leadership. They were right to fear it, because the party philosophy was against the noble class.
Although I don't think they would reintroduce the Hohenzollern main branch. I am not that sure about that.
A good event would be the burial of the body of Wilhelm II. if a new Emperor has been chosen. (Wilhelm II. wished not to return to Germany even in death, only monarchy was restored.)
There could be 3-4 choices as an Emperor. One would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franz_Joseph,_Prince_of_Hohenzollern-Emden this choice could calm down the radical wing of the Reich and the SS.
The main branch could become a friendly gesture towards the Allies. (I think Louis Ferdinand was quite democratic and liberal.) Although this would enrage the far right.
A great choice would be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupprecht,_Crown_Prince_of_Bavaria
While not young, but he is a notable commander, who is the son of the last Bavarian king. Italy (if it run by the King, or if the King is still there would make an alliance with him, and support him greatly. The German Empire and Italy could actually have a closer tie than the Axis, and even reform the Central Powers. It is not that ASB. The Central Powers was seen as an equal alliance, and the Axis was about Germany and its puppets.)
Umberto II. and the heir of Rupprecht would mean a new generation and a push towards a more relaxed Europe, but this does not mean, that either of them would join USA, or the Allies.

A few days ago, I learnt by chance that Rupprecht was also the head of the Jacobite line of succession, through his mother, who died in 1919. Thus, he could have claimed the British crown as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobite_succession

I know nothing about the Fatherland lore, but this could fuel your discussion a little bit.

As for Italy, can you write some events for this ? We can made a collaboration.
If you aren't able to write events let me known a sketch and i'll made it.
 

Xar64

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Guys, your ideas are very interesting.
I'm italian too, so if you want send me a PM we can discuss in our mothertongue without problems.
If you're able to write events, i hope we can made a collaboration. If you aren't able let me known a sketch of events and i'll made it.

How can I send to you a PM? (I'm new in the forum of Paradox)

I'm will be very happy that we can collaborate, i'm not able to write events but, can i talk to you about many idea for the mod, i really like history and i played some mod for DH. :D
 

pakotorino

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How can I send to you a PM? (I'm new in the forum of Paradox)

I'm will be very happy that we can collaborate, i'm not able to write events but, can i talk to you about many idea for the mod, i really like history and i played some mod for DH. :D

I'll start a conversation with you, you'll have a notification in the right top, near your nickname
 

ALVASV

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You should read the bio of Kurt von Schleicher for ideas for Wehrmacht Germany's path. He was a General of the Reichswehr and schemed to create the "Wehrstaat" in the 20's and 30's, a military dictatorship in Germany. To that end he facilitated cooperation between the SA and Reichswehr, intending to use the SA as either a pool from which to draw conscripts into the Reichswehr or as cannon fodder against the Reichswehr's enemies like the communist paramilitaries. Hitler thought the close relationship between von Schleicher and Ernst Rohm (leader of the SA) was a threat and they could stage a coup against him, so he had them both killed in the Night of the Long Knives. Anyway, if Germany were to be led by someone like von Schleicher, the Nazis would be at best a militia subordinate to the military, maybe even outlawed after the Wehrstaat is created. Of course seeing as Fatherland starts with a Nazi victory in WW2, this aspect should probably be toned down.

Like the rest of the Reichswehr leadership, Schleicher saw democracy as an impediment to military power, and was convinced that only a dictatorship could make Germany a great military power again.[44] Though Schleicher sometimes claimed to be a monarchist, in reality he cared nothing for the House of Hohenzollern, and often stated: "Republic or monarchy is not the question now, but rather what should the republic look like."[45] He was willing to accept a republic, but was deeply hostile toward the democratic Weimar republic, and much preferred a regime dominated by the military.[46] The German historian Eberhard Kolb wrote that:

"...from the mid-1920s onwards the Army leaders had developed and propagated new social conceptions of a militarist kind, tending towards a fusion of the military and civilian sectors and ultimately a totalitarian military state (Wehrstaat)."[47]

It was Schleicher's dream to create that Wehrstaat (Military State), in which the military would reorganize German society as part of the preparations for the total war that the Reichswehr wished to wage.[48] From the second half of 1931 onwards Schleicher was the leading advocate within the German government of the Zähmungskonzept (taming concept) where the Nazis were to be "tamed" by being brought into the government, which had the additional bonus for Schleicher as helping to do away with democracy by having an anti-democratic party in office.[49] Schleicher, a militarist to the core, greatly admired the militarism of the Nazis; and the fact that Grenzschutz was working well, especially in East Prussia where the SA was serving as an unofficial militia backing up the Reichswehr was seen as a model for future Army-Nazi co-operation.[50]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_von_Schleicher