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Kanitatlan

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kami888 said:
Note that almost all Soviet units are over command limit. They are screwed.
Only the air units are over command due to Russian action. I grouped the ground units so I could select some appropriate examples more easily. Also, these screens were taken from a Russian save from another game but around the right sort of date. I am hoping they are a reasonable reflection of the sort of units and org levels that the Russians will have in this game but I cannot be certain.
 

Kanitatlan

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2vlqzjm.jpg


Plan

Here it is then, the plan. It is all quite simple really (honest).

First of all I will be using attack supply all the time for all forces that are either attacking or moving. This will be a constant feature of the campaign. This will increase the TC load but the damage done by this is significantly less than the gain to my forces. Predicted TC load is 1800/1200 with attack supply or 1380/1200 otherwise. That is a base ESE of 67% or 87%. Combined with an average 60% infrastructure this would put units at a standard ESE of 64% or 74% BUT those on attack supply gain +25% ESE whilst the use of it has only reduced everyone’s ESE by 10%. This is a 15% ESE bonus so well worth having as it gives +7.5% combat adjustment and +15% speed.

Naval operations

The German fleet will be operating in the Baltic in strength with the intention of establishing absolute naval superiority and supporting amphibious operations. There are potential landings in the Baltics should they be dragged into the war and I will watch for an opportunity to capture Leningrad. The fleet will consist of the main CV fleet and a 6 squadron of DDs. There is a new fleet (6 CV + 6 DD) running up in Wilhelmshaven that may come and join in if it seems appropriate. The combination will offer a very good shore bombardment modifier, which is tempting. The residue of the fleet is operating from Narvik in case there is a need for skirmishing with the Soviet northern fleet.

Any landings in the Baltics may be replaced with or supplemented by paratroop landings. This will support more rapid capture and annexation. This could be important to prevent any provinces becoming Russian and helps preserve the wall of non-Russian owned provinces.

Phase One

This is very much of a southern wing operation. The four panzer groups will attack and roll up the entire Soviet southern wing destroying all forces west of the Dnepr. Based on a minimum of 20 divisions per border province this should result in destroying at least 140 Soviet divisions but I suspect it will be rather more.

I am seriously considering a major paratroop drop in the swamp provinces plus Rowne. This is to provide a northern barrier for retreating units to make sure nothing can retreat northwards and without detouring any forces in that direction. If I do this these paratroops will be withdrawn as quickly as possible (strategic movement) and sent back to Konigsberg for further operations. The viability of this depends on what Russian forces are deployed back here and this is something I cannot yet determine.

The panzer groups will clear all the terrain and breach the Dnepr line. There will be about 50 infantry divisions following up. Minor forces will deploy southwards to occupy and defend the captured airfields but the bulk will head for Kiev. Generally the northern flank will be left undefended and any Soviets forces moving south will be destroyed via air attack.

It is tempting to assault Bielsk (I have 3 directions on it) and then squeeze out and destroy Brest-Litovsk to secure the northern flank. I haven’t decided if I want to do this since there is a temptation to resist pushing the enemy back at this stage but I am beginning to feel this operation may be essential. If so then its success is dependent on an advance from Lomza to Bielsk followed by a successful attack on Brest-Litovsk being completed before Pinsk is recaptured by the Russians after the paradrop (if viable). If the paradrop is not viable then the whole of this operation becomes questionable.

The infantry advancing behind the attack should be able to capture an isolated Kiev although this is unlikely to occur before the move into phase two. The infantry role is not to secure the break through but to move on and take key targets like Kiev.

The southern branch of phase one may include a quick sweep to clear the entrance to the Crimea (there is a potential pocket operation at Perekop) but I will not be tempted to move on into the Crimea. After phase one is complete all panzer groups will be moving northwards leaving almost a complete vacuum behind. Single divisions may be attached to advance eastwards where there is no opposition but only into empty provinces. This will leave a large undefended area in the south that Soviet forces can retake. There will likely be significant air strength available to try and defend it but ultimately I don’t mind if the Soviets execute significant advances. The only point at which it matters is when they pose a conceivable threat to my supply lines. I am reasonably confident that this will not happen.

Phase Two

This is mostly a redeployment operation. The southern panzer groups will move northwards in occupied territory behind my lines as quickly as possible. The Kiev groups will meanwhile sweep eastwards and disrupt and overrun all Soviet forces south west of Moscow. The Soviet AI will probably react strongly to the threat to Moscow and I intend to veer away when appropriate. This should result in all 4 panzer groups being lined up on a wide start line behind the Soviet northern front. It is unclear to what extend Soviet forces will advance into the northern front facing my infantry but there should be at least 200 divisions start south of Leningrad with probably another 150 on the Leningrad/Finnish front.

During the phase 2 advance single divisions will probe eastwards. Their role is to disrupt Soviet counter-attacks by getting in the way and taking vacant territory. Ultimately the defence of my flank and rear is expected to be based on open space rather than German forces.

The infantry forces will advance from Kiev towards Moscow with a long-term idea of attacking there. This is probably the most uncertain part of the operation and most likely to be affected by the conditions encountered. There are a lot of Soviet units unaccounted for and I am expecting to find these causing plans to be re-evaluated.

Phase Three

The phase three operation is vital to complete the defeat of the Soviet frontier armies. The panzer groups will all strike north westwards and pursue opportunistic lines of advance to achieve encirclement of the bulk of the western frontier forces. The eastern flank of this advance is through swamps and I may go around these to the west or east depending on circumstances. If the naval forces have had the opportunity to take Leningrad then that will be my preferred closure point for the pocket. This may not be possible and any closure on the northern Baltics will do. The situation in the Baltics may have changed by this time as I will look to invade and annex as soon as the Russians DOW them if they do. If they manage to acquire one or more by demanding territory then I will be well annoyed.

Once the pocket is closed I will need to carry out an all forces assault to reduce the pocket, again using space to protect the rear of the encirclement forces. Once complete the northern infantry will be free to advance into Russia towards Moscow whilst the armour can pursue further operations. The next step will depend on where remaining Soviet forces are located and therefore cannot be predicted at this time. The proposed operations have a minimum expectation of destroying around 300 Soviet divisions and will probably net more BUT this still leaves an awful lot of divisions whose destruction depends on where it turns out they are being deployed.
 

OAM

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Excellent, just catching up now :D ... From the start 0_o On page 25. All I can say is i hope you get your.... rear handed to you on a silver plate by the USA :D Keep up the good fight till then ;)

(If you can't tell, if you add me, to the USA would be a good place. USA will never fall :D)
 

unmerged(24320)

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Kanitatlan: ...The situation in the Baltics may have changed by this time as I will look to invade and annex as soon as the Russians DOW them if they do. If they manage to acquire one or more by demanding territory then I will be well annoyed.

what penalty/s do you incur if you DOW the Baltics? ? ;)

excellent updates/data! ! :cool:
 

VILenin

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I must hack into your computer and warn the AI of your plans! :eek:

As you've said yourself, this campaign is going to be the crucible. If the million-division Red Army doesn't stop you, nothing will. Maybe after you take out the USSR rich-love can load as the US and do his own sequel. ;)
 

noobermenschen

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VILenin said:
Maybe after you take out the USSR rich-love can load as the US and do his own sequel. ;)
This time though, he should wait until the Germans have landed in the US, then come back from THAT.
 

Kanitatlan

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Hamminator Bombing Russians to dust may not be the way things develop. I analysed this before playing. With 8 groups of 16 bombers (I'm not there yet but this is the target) with eeach group destroying on average half a division per day this works out at 4 divisions per day. Half the manpower is returned to the pool so that is a loss of about 20 manpower per day. With 10,000 manpower in deployed divisions this means it would take 500 days to bomb the Russians to death EXCEPT that they have estimated 2,000 manpower in reserve and would collect 3-4,000 manpower in that period. Even with my huge airforce bombing is going to have relatively little impact on Russian numbers.

DirtyCommiePuke You are porbably right, except I shouldn't have the IC benefit. I am begining to suspect this setup is easier than it first appears but it is hard to tell.

OAM I refuse to fear the Americans even if they have a whole continent behind them (if you look back you will notice I declared that I would DOW every American country as soon as I am at war with the USA).

VILenin You best set loose your anti-Fascist diatribe quickly before you melt in the overheated crucible of the Eastern front. The scourge of bolshevism will be forever erased from the face of MY planet.

noobermenschen may be I will do the sequel myself this time. I'm afraid beating the AI in world wide warfare is a little too easy as it really doesn't have any sense of Grand Strategy whatsoever.

All Just to give you all a sneak preview of play so far. I have completed phase 1 and headed into phase 2. Unfortunately conditions were not quite as expected and phase 2 has been seriously derailed and developed into an alternate plan. There are some interesting screenies with titles like - "deep reconnaissance by the airforce provides our first sight of the Soviet orbital tower experiments". And there isn't just the one of them.
 

unmerged(55467)

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You are porbably right, except I shouldn't have the IC benefit. I am begining to suspect this setup is easier than it first appears but it is hard to tell.

The AI probably wouldn't be able to take advantage of the bonuses in the same way you have. The increased amount of French forces would probably mean they'd just get bogged down in France.
 

Jack Fisher

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All Just to give you all a sneak preview of play so far. I have completed phase 1 and headed into phase 2. Unfortunately conditions were not quite as expected and phase 2 has been seriously derailed and developed into an alternate plan. There are some interesting screenies with titles like - "deep reconnaissance by the airforce provides our first sight of the Soviet orbital tower experiments". And there isn't just the one of them.[/QUOTE]

Are they building the tower of Babel? And several of them??? Then it´s no problem! The united commies of the world won´t understand eachother!
Go, go, go!
 

Kami888

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The AI probably wouldn't be able to take advantage of the bonuses in the same way you have. The increased amount of French forces would probably mean they'd just get bogged down in France.
But there are only limited number of ways you can make the game harder for yourself.

1. Give bonuses to enemies.
2. Give yourself penalties.
3. Impose arbitrary rules or restrictions that limit your options.
 

OAM

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All Just to give you all a sneak preview of play so far. I have completed phase 1 and headed into phase 2. Unfortunately conditions were not quite as expected and phase 2 has been seriously derailed and developed into an alternate plan. There are some interesting screenies with titles like - "deep reconnaissance by the airforce provides our first sight of the Soviet orbital tower experiments". And there isn't just the one of them.

As much as I love good plans, I love it when good plans fall apart more :D

P.S. Nice Plan when taking on France, I use something simaler myself each time, I realy should have read earlier and said that when it mattered :rofl:
 

unmerged(55467)

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kami888 said:
But there are only limited number of ways you can make the game harder for yourself.

1. Give bonuses to enemies.
2. Give yourself penalties.
3. Impose arbitrary rules or restrictions that limit your options.

I don't like giving myself penalties... I'd prefer the enemy to get 200% production rather than me getting 50%... just don't like the feel of it.
 

Kanitatlan

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There is a very different effect between giving the enemy bonuses and giving yourself penalties. As many have remarked before, the game is balanced for play on normal and when playing on other difficulty levels quite unrealistic choices must be made. Whilst the different ways of establishing can be compared arithmetically and shown to come to similar totals of penalty/benefit then option of vastly enhancing the enemy whilst having no penalties is qualitatively quite different. Unfortunately I believe the AI has some difficulty handling it.
 

gamer42_au

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I have just finished reading this AAR (this is rather lengthy now, and you have only just got to the start of Barbarossa).
Thank you Kanitatlan for yet another interesting AAR. It is very instructive to see how you approach problems.
As a newbie to HOI2: DD (or its predecessors), I find AARs such as this with the detail of planning as well as execution extremely interesting.
 

unmerged(24320)

Field Marshal
Jan 5, 2004
5.296
25
Kanitatlan: All Just to give you all a sneak preview of play so far. I have completed phase 1 and headed into phase 2. Unfortunately conditions were not quite as expected and phase 2 has been seriously derailed and developed into an alternate plan. There are some interesting screenies with titles like - "deep reconnaissance by the airforce provides our first sight of the Soviet orbital tower experiments". And there isn't just the one of them.

OAM: As much as I love good plans, I love it when good plans fall apart more :D

well said ! ! :cool:

and, since this is an excellent plan... ;)

that said, when do we get to see that alternate phase 2? ? :)