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Manziel

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nice stacks in manchuria. i think there are your PT-divisions.
do you think, you have a chance to lure them into the inland and cut their supply off?

and are you really sure about the offensive-supply calculation? i rather think it is ((needed TC/available TC) + OS + infra)/2 + HQ
 

Brad1

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could you get a shore bombardment high enough to defeat those divisions in Korea?

EDIT: that is, of course, assuming that you can et control of the seas.

Did you say that you are going to do another planning session again? Could you please show my the intelligence reports on the US?
 
Last edited:

unmerged(87674)

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Some suggestions & remarks:
1. Eradication of 200 petal divisions probably doesn't include 100 division encircled in tibet area. So reduction by more-or-less 25% isn't bad result. Moreover you destroy more than 200 because of replenishments. Also you reduce IC&MP of Petal.
In my opinion most of aims in this campaign is fullfilled. Success could be greater if kriegsmarine has helped with supply cut off. But all we know Petal is still strong, and usa interference is also a disadvantage. So naval element of campaign is at best partially fulfilled, but aims for naval campaign were very ambitious, maybe too ambitious...
Actually India , Deustch Central Asia, Deutsch Siberia are much more safer.
2. In southern china you create a semi-bag with hard to say but 200 (?) divisions.
3. I have some suggestions about future plan but I wait till you reveal yours.
Your campaign introductions/briefing are real pleasure to read.
 

PrawnStar

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Would pulling back from the central chinese plains make sense, let the PT reclaim them and then repocket?

Hopefully the reclaim process would be quite fast, just long enough for your troops to regain full org and start again.
 

C.N.

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Good job, better than I expected.

Questions and suggestions:
- Where is the current UK capital?

- What are your prospects of annexing France and Portugal? VP locations left of those countries?

- Pushing the PT out of southern China and using Air and Naval forces to isolate Indo-China might get results.

- Any hope of reaching Vladivostok and annexing the Soviet Union?
 

unmerged(47937)

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Aug 25, 2005
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As I see it now, manchuria and korea are a huge issue now. I'm wondering how you'll break this tough nut.

Nice to see you still have your subs, they might prove useful in an island hopping campaign, as islands entirely situated in one sea zone might be a good place to raid some US or PT convoys.

I think you might consider mopping up afrika soon rather than later, as it seems to divert troops, airpower and most importantly, attention.

merry christmas and a happy newyear,

Squalleke123
 

unmerged(53911)

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Always fun to read the Summer Offensive portion of this AAR! Good luck luring out those PT forces in Manchuria. I take it that there will be no final annexation of SU until something can be done with all of those nasty PT forces right next door.
 

unmerged(87674)

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In the nearest time, probably I don't have to post, so I post remarks now (some of them you posted earlier),

1. Probably too late, but maybe occuping but not garrisoning Andamans islands near burma could help with naval operations. The same for Sao Tome near French Africa.

2. Secure Tibet&Xinjiang great pocket, position in Quamdo is in my opinion stil vulnerable.
3. In Burma defense by space.
4. Invasion of Philipinnes is a must, probably a Taiwan too, if you want in south china and indiochina from semibag make a more real bag. Philipiness will need strong garrison.
5. Continue step by step invasion to the south china. The further south you go, it will be easier to supply cut off. Without supply in southern china for petal, it will be much easier to destroy it by land of forces, or by navy if petal try to evacuate.
6. Defense line in Manchuria is too weak, moreover should be removed when you reorganize and regroup.
7. You should lure Petal into mongolia plains, there is a pretty gate 2 province wide between mountains, when xx divisions will be in bag, you close it by tank strike. Also air decimation tactics should be applied. Inner Mongolia hasn't much IC&MP
8. There is a question, should we (or are able to) defend pass into Shanghai direction? I think you should try at least delay petal advances in this direction.
9. Where are now operating your mountainers from yakutsk?
10. Annexing of SU now I think it's possible but too risky, strategic redemployment of strong infantry/mountain group as close to Vladivostok as possible and banzai-attack could success, but if petal intervene, your divisions could be easily cut off and destroyd. During campaign you need to observe petal stacks near wladivostok and attack at right moment.
 

4th Dimension

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One question.

How quickly do division that are not in supply lose their Org, strenght.
 

Kanitatlan

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Manziel I'm quite sure about the ESE formula. Your version increases as TC load increases so that is the wrong way round. Where you add the bonuses is at best a minor technicality as it simply adjusts the size of bonus.

Brad1 High shore bombardment is not going to be a big problem, naval superiority is. I suspect we are going to find out why "infinite" shore bombardment is not enough.

4th Dimension Not sure how quick out of supply divisions die. Unfortunately you need divisions of your own to test this. It has definitely started and is progressing nicely. I suspect 1% per day or something like it.


All other questions are, I believe, covered by further discussion and reports to be posted soon.
 

Kanitatlan

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What next​

This post is a mixture of a response to comments and a quick précis of my thoughts so far. The action isn't going to restart for a while as I have to prepare a full set of situation reports and plans for the next phase. Currently we are in late summer, no too late for further action but not early enough to justify a new "summer" campaign. Bear in mind that action south of the equator has reversed seasons so the "summer"/"winter" issue is a bit mixed in our current active locations.

I have declared the summer campaign a failure but this is perhaps being a little unfair. What I needed was a decisive campaign that succeeded in comprehensively destroying the enemy armies. This didn't happen and in that sense the campaign was a failure but it was an expected failure. I have achieved the geographic manoeuvres I had as objectives it’s just that the bag was a little smaller than I wanted. Also, at sea things have not gone particularly well and the naval campaign is definitely behind schedule compared with what was intended.

The current situation is characterised by a land campaign that ahs run out of steam as it runs into the south China mountains. There are basically two alternatives, one is to withdraw and defend with space and air power and the other is to try to clear southern China as well. In both cases I need to maintain the great pocket in western China and ultimately eliminate the enemy forces there.

Here, in no particular order, is a list of some thoughts I have had. They are not all compatible with each other but each represents a desire to achieve a certain objective.

1. I have built quite a few new brigades but have no way of effectively reorganising what goes where due to the brigade deployment restrictions. Also, my forces are almost all at low org levels. I am tempted to carry out a mass withdrawal for reorganisation (Desired brigade distribution will be supplied in the army report). It is also tempting to withdraw parts of the air force for upgrading and recovery.

2. I have a severe partisan problem, occupied territory problem and issues with deploying new units. To address this it would be highly beneficial to annex Portugal, Britain and Russia. These three countries have limited further VPs and annexation is practical. Actually launching a campaign to capture these remaining VPs simply to allow annexation seems a bit weird. It is clearly not realistic that capturing Vladivostok would make that much different and why the population of the UK would even know, let alone care, about a handful of islands in the Pacific is beyond me. If I did pursue such a campaign then the raid on Vladivostok and the UK Pacific islands might be exciting but they are ultimately rather weird so I am proposing so “adjustments” (see below)

3. It is quite clear that my strategy is “indirect approach” as I am not engaging the main body of the enemy army and cannot hope to do so in current circumstances. Therefore it is perfectly clear that I should adopt a list of secondary targets for conquest. The current list is as follows.
a) Clear Africa
b) Annex Australia
c) Annex New Zealand
d) Annex the Philippines
e) Acquire further island bases around the Chinese and Japanese coast

4. Naval operations are in some difficulties and clearly need some focus. They are traditionally treated as a supporting role with the real naval objective being to land troops or support land operations. With the current state of naval superiority I need to allow naval operations to prioritise defeat of the enemy navy and as such I devote significant supporting resources. Up until this point in the game I have skirmished with the enemy navy aiming to inflict losses at the least possible cost to my forces. This must now change to a serious attempt to actually defeat the enemy navies and develop naval superiority in this theatre.

5. I have serious questions about the best policy with regard to the west China pocket. I currently estimate there are about 120 divisions present and they are already losing strength from being out of supply. I have already decided that I am not going to dedicate significant forces to crushing this pocket – it will be dealt with by waiting. Having decided this there appears to be an interesting but rather exploitative option – what if I wait for the units to be massively damaged by being out of supply and then allow the Petal Throne to recapture the key province of Qamdo? The follow up is to wait for the units to be reinforced and then cut them off again. The basic idea is to exploit the ineptness of the AI to drain substantially more manpower from the Petal throne reserves. I am uncertain whether this really qualifies as an exploit or just a clever/stupid plan. Unfortunately it seems to have elements of both clever and stupid. Its just an idea.

6. Further operations in China offer a range of possibilities.
a) Defence by air power – this makes maximum use of air power and gives it excellent opportunity for inflicting enemy losses
b) Heavy offensive in the south – this will make the Petal Throne supply position as bad as possible with convoy lines running fairly long distances.
c) (a) plus collecting a large force for a raid into Manchuria aimed at inflicting casualties. This depends on forces reserved for operations elsewhere.

7. It is tempting to aim at a long-term objective of creating a position which requires the absolute minimum of defensive forces. This requires the capture of the west China/Tibet area to establish secure supply lines for the north and south. Achieving this provides maximum flexibility in future operations as I could conceivably leave the entire continent undefended.

Collapse of the UK

This is a custom event to cover the events resulting from the near total dissolution of the UK armed forces and the fact that remaining UK territory is not being defended by the UK. It gives Asian territory to the Petal throne and remaining territory to Australia, USA and Canada as appropriate. If nobody objects to the idea then I will trigger it with a formal post in the AAR.

Collapse of Russia

Exactly the same issue as the UK except I will make sure the Petal throne has claims to its new territory, as some of it is quite valuable.

In both cases these event are needed to persuade the Petal Throne armed forces to make a sensible effort to defend the relevant territory as Burma and Vladivostok represent undefended localities within the current situation. Also Germany annexing the rest will remove the Petal Throne reluctance to attack into it. This has been the main reason I need so little defence along the Chinese border. The collapse events will remove the “ownership” issues which are currently confusing the AI.
 

unmerged(87674)

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Nov 21, 2007
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I support idea of collapsing UK and SU. China had claims on so-called outer manchuria, so it's historically plausible. Moreover communist SU doesn't fit in allies ideology ;-)
Also I think idea of collapsing Portugal should be considered (Macau to Petal, island in Indonesia to Deutschland, also african provinces and islands, Azores to USA, in real world its in USA interest to extend defense lines, in history it was capturing of greenland during WWII)
After africa campaign collapse of France is also plausible: pacific islands to USA, south america provinces to brazil (also UK south american provinces to Brazil), there is a question about Madagascar, but it actually hasn't any value so if Fatherland gets even without fight, I think its ok.
 

unmerged(55467)

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Would annexing them really be justified? Realistically it makes sense that they would collapse but given that you've went out of your way to make things harder for yourself, annexing huge tracts of land would somewhat defeat the purpose of this...
 

C.N.

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I think that collapse events for SU and UK would be realistic at this point.
I'm also, as already stated, supporting offensive in southern China. Wasn't a lot of those mountain provinces still empty?
I also still consider offensives against Australia and NZ distractions that would give PT valuable time to rebuild.
Capturing Philippines would help isolating Indo-China.
Allowing recapture of Qamdo to make the AI waste manpower would be too gamey.
 

PrawnStar

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China campaign - pull out of Coastal China, let PT reclaim the territory and then repocket them. Air and Armour should get you another substantial haul of troops, then it will be winter (hopefully) so you can do your reorganisation through the winter and rpeat the process next spring. Same campaign as just gone but repeated twice, once either side of winter to hopefully wipe out huge numbers of troops.

I seem to recall you though that a lot of strat deploy units bounced back to Tokyo as you overran their target provinces – see if this temps them to come out and play.

I think that given how difficult the terrain is in Southern China it would be a fairly good idea to keep on pushing wherever you have the opportunity without grinding up your own forces.

Are Australia and New Zealand anything other than distractions? Something to be taken out once the PT is broken and you're working on the USN?


Annexing Russia once Vladivostok falls seems fairly reasonable, if the PT needs claims to get it moving then give them some.

LIFO’s suggestion of a Portuguese collapse sounds sensible – once the African colonies are taken. What’s left; the Azores, US base; Macau, reclaimed by PT and East Timor, Aussie if they get there faster than Germany. The Government is probably in Brasil already :)

Collapse of the UK– Good lord man you make us sound French!

In all likelihood a key UK aim, in this situation, would be to maximise the British position at any eventual peace deal - which would mean keeping the Empire together enough to claim a seat at the top table. If the UK was about to collapse that could mean handing things over to the Dominions, keeping it ‘in house’ so to speak until the situation improved.

Perhaps a collapse of the UK event should see most units handed over to Canada, Australia and New Zealand along with territories around the world as appropriate. Nothing for anyone else, how would Britain get it back after the war?

You could set up a UK Government in Exile – I can picture Churchill in Jamaica pleasantly surprised by his local ‘Cigar’ :D
 

unmerged(87674)

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Nov 21, 2007
129
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PrawnStar said:
China campaign - pull out of Coastal China, let PT reclaim the territory and then repocket them. Air and Armour should get you another substantial haul of troops, then it will be winter (hopefully) so you can do your reorganisation through the winter and rpeat the process next spring. Same campaign as just gone but repeated twice, once either side of winter to hopefully wipe out huge numbers of troops.

I seem to recall you though that a lot of strat deploy units bounced back to Tokyo as you overran their target provinces – see if this temps them to come out and play.

I think that given how difficult the terrain is in Southern China it would be a fairly good idea to keep on pushing wherever you have the opportunity without grinding up your own forces.

Are Australia and New Zealand anything other than distractions? Something to be taken out once the PT is broken and you're working on the USN?


Annexing Russia once Vladivostok falls seems fairly reasonable, if the PT needs claims to get it moving then give them some.

LIFO’s suggestion of a Portuguese collapse sounds sensible – once the African colonies are taken. What’s left; the Azores, US base; Macau, reclaimed by PT and East Timor, Aussie if they get there faster than Germany. The Government is probably in Brasil already :)

Collapse of the UK– Good lord man you make us sound French!

In all likelihood a key UK aim, in this situation, would be to maximise the British position at any eventual peace deal - which would mean keeping the Empire together enough to claim a seat at the top table. If the UK was about to collapse that could mean handing things over to the Dominions, keeping it ‘in house’ so to speak until the situation improved.

Perhaps a collapse of the UK event should see most units handed over to Canada, Australia and New Zealand along with territories around the world as appropriate. Nothing for anyone else, how would Britain get it back after the war?

You could set up a UK Government in Exile – I can picture Churchill in Jamaica pleasantly surprised by his local ‘Cigar’ :D

Jamaica should be liberated with Bob Marley as a president ;)
Of course UK prefers solutions with possibility of "rebirth" but in Petal china population (after defeats and deutsch occupation) need some successes, e.g. reverse of unequal treaties, opium wars. Moreover UK's dominions will not be so submissive to "jamaica" based great power ;) In independent Jamaica Churchill could start write his memoirs, and drink jamaican rum at will ;)
Of course if churchill resists, he can start war with allies ;) His scotish-kamikaze attack will be famous ;)


Your location is: polish speaking India, best regards from polish speaking Poland ;)
 

Kanitatlan

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Naval Losses for the period 12th May to 13th August 1942

Allies

15 CV, 17 CVL, 4 BB, 2 BC, 22 CA, 40 CL, 121 DD, 22 SS, 27 TP

Germany

5 CA, 9 SS

This is not a bad result all taken together with later bombing losses making up for the loss of 5 CAs fairly early on. I’m starting to just accept the u-boat losses as sunk u-boats are no more useless than u-boats in port. I don’t like losing so many for so little gain so I may relegate them back to the waiting role.

7werhn4.jpg


August 1942 – Intel​

This is an interesting intelligence report for several reasons. The biggest item that jumps out is the major increase in US forces. They now have some 1600 divisions which is more than a serious pain in the arse, it is positively scary. It is rather odd to see the US “smaller ships” category so low and this rather suggests to me that they have suffered a massive decline in screens and transports. The exhaustion of the US transport fleet would also explain the poor showing with their landings in Europe.

The Petal Throne has the reductions we have seen through the campaign but whilst they may be bruised it is not at all obvious that they have been seriously affected in any way. The position remains very similar to five months earlier which is all rather concerning. The loss of territory has badly affected their IC (down 400) and manpower (impact unknown) but they remain a potent enemy.

The intelligence on Australia and the Philippines is just for guidance on what we are up against for invading those two nations. In both cases they look not too bad but Australia will clearly require a major force to successfully conquer.

87ltmdw.jpg


August 1942 – Planning map​

This is a planning map of the entire east Asia theatre but we don’t have a plan to go with it. I remain slightly bemused about the full scope of what to do next. The plan, as far as it goes is

1. Naval operations

2. Philippines – Australia

3. Review
 

Brad1

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I agree with the collapse of the Soviet Union and the UK. The US is looking very imposing, but why is the BB count so low? Is it error in the Spy report or have you been sinking them regularly? Also, what are your current builds?

Also, concerning immediate plans for the Petal Throne, I think you should go for some limited action in Manchuria.
 

Kanitatlan

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UK and Russia Collapse

There appears to be general support for the principals of this with DirtyCommiePuke as a lone voice expressing exactly my misgivings about it. Some of the comments indicate that I really ought to give a few more details.

Both the UK and Russia have had their armed forces reduced to near non-existence, both currently field a mere three divisions. For the UK one is the locked garrison of Hong Kong and for Russia one is in the Canaries (I have seen it during passing Luftwaffe flights). Both are at minimal levels for aircraft and navy and therefore I am treating their armed forces as effectively non-existent. This simplifies the issue of the events and helps justify why the collapse should take place. As a further note, the UK has 1 IC in Rangoon and whilst Russia still has significant IC it is principally based on the large “lendlease” build up of Vladivostok. Both countries have extremely minimal manpower income.

The general story of the collapse is of Petal Throne forces moving in to take over the defence of the Asian mainland. Given that Petal Throne forces are already present in higher numbers than the supposed defenders this seems entirely reasonable. The main military consequence of the collapse will be an improved defence by the allied nations.

The biggest argument against is the fact that annexation will give me a huge TC improvement. This clearly undermines the general strategy of making the game difficult for myself but bear in mind the increased difficulty has always focused on improving the enemy rather than sabotaging myself. In fact the whole game is based on the principal of having a top of the range Germany against an outrageous AI. The collapse events are therefore not too out of line with the whole difficulty issue.

One final point, if I don’t use this collapse events then the entire winter campaign will be devoted purely to achieving annexation of the UK and Russia (with a possible Portugal side order). In some ways this would be interesting but in others it could be quite tedious and would ultimately result in some really weird military operations. A key question is whether this would be more interesting (as an AAR) than setting off the events and playing a more realistic campaign.

The current structure of the events is as follows:

All Asian mainland territory (and nearby islands – ie Hong Kong, Nicobar) belonging to Russia, UK and Portugal (Macao only) go to the Petal Throne. Isolated or semi-isolated Siberian territory will be left for Germany to annex to Petal Throne holdings are coherent. Petal Throne will get control and claims on Kamchatka area and Vladivostok area.

Pacific islands are split between Australia and USA. West Indian Ocean islands are left for Germany. Atlantic islands go to US. Falklands to Argentina (they will be pleased). All American provinces go to US except the bits which clearly belong to Canada. I decided against sending them to nearby south American countries in an effort to spread US interest a little wider. They are clearly the major defensive power for the entire hemisphere and need general interest.

Portugal remains in existence based in the Azores. I can see how they could logically be taken over by the US but the Azores is a natural Portuguese homeland and a reasonable basis for continued existence. The choice here is between getting to annex the mainland Portuguese provinces and having an impossible to take Azores as against the annoyance of having to invade and capture the Azores. I have resorted to the plausible situation although significant US troops really ought to get involved. Note that the transfer of Macao means Portuguese VPs are Atlantic islands only.

The UK stock of convoys and escorts is added to the Petal Throne. This is not really the right country but they are the allied nation that is going to need them.

In answer to other comments …

LIFO Just a side note but I have already annexed Madagascar as part of Vichy. The only remaining non-German territory in Africa is the French held area around the Cameroons.

C.N. Southern China does currently still include a lot of empty space but then I only have a few HQs there as well. I may well continue to advance as long as there is no opposition but the reaction to opposition is another matter. The only available troops are mobile divisions and they are singularly unsuited to the mountainous terrain.

Roman_legion I’m afraid that any amphibious landing in China is definitely out of the question until I have total naval supremacy and that is a long way off. My recent experience with landings has not been all that good.

Brad1 The BB counts are low because they are not given a high build priority and the allied navies have become dominated by new builds. The ratio between builds and original forces is much higher in this game than is normal. If a normal game had a sustained naval war through to the late 1940s you should see a similar effect.