Fatherland- Alternate history Cold War for HoI2 & DD

[Samilou]

Greetings to all, I was recovering Internet since I am in Mexico.

For the British flag, I wanted to propose an Union Jack with Cross-of-Saint-Patrick removed, but it's yet online. But, for the symbol in the center, why don't use a Celtic Cross? I think it's impossible because it's by now a Neo-Nazi symbol and also, more appropriate to fascist Ireland.

For Finland, I wanted to propose a democratic republic, which only join the Axis to fight USSR. And I'm quite reserved to attribuate Leningrad to Finnish people: it's a too important city for them, isn't it?

I believe Leningrad would have been so heavily damaged after the war that there wasn't much importance left of it, most of the materials in the ruins would ropably have been redistributed to the rebuilding of other parts of Finland (possibly some cultural buildings and such would have been restored if destroyed).

 

[unmerged(65250)]

I think that since the Union if Soviet Socialist Republics is in Siberia, and that St. Petersburg would mostly been bombed to the ground, theres no reason why the Finns could not have it.
Especially if Finland is getting a1/3 of its ancient lands back. (originally Finnish language pre-dates the last Ice Age, until about 1600 years ago, Finland had most of the far North of Scandinavia and the all the eastern part of it to. Including a bit of the Eastern coast of West Costal Permafrost Steppe, directly opposite/across to the Scandic Pennisular (In old times, they called this Perm).

 

[DarkReborn]

Why not for the british flag, a mix of the Norsefire flag and the Fascist Union Jack?

 

[unmerged(64030)]

Well I got us a Sub-Forum on Moddir.net, we can move some operations there.

http://www.moddir.net/forums/fatherland-mod-f-14.html

Everyone on the mod team should join. If we did some work their it would really help our organization ability.

 

[unmerged(54011)]

hey i have registerd there but stil not activated and im not getting the mail but screaming eagle could you make a dietsland thread allready ?

 

[unmerged(62281)]

Well I got us a Sub-Forum on Moddir.net, we can move some operations there.

http://www.moddir.net/forums/fatherland-mod-f-14.html

Everyone on the mod team should join. If we did some work their it would really help our organization ability.

Okay, I'm in!

 

[unmerged(65250)]

Already registered there Kameraden

 

[Fulmen]

I think that since the Union if Soviet Socialist Republics is in Siberia, and that St. Petersburg would mostly been bombed to the ground, theres no reason why the Finns could not have it.
Especially if Finland is getting a1/3 of its ancient lands back. (originally Finnish language pre-dates the last Ice Age, until about 1600 years ago, Finland had most of the far North of Scandinavia and the all the eastern part of it to. Including a bit of the Eastern coast of West Costal Permafrost Steppe, directly opposite/across to the Scandic Pennisular (In old times, they called this Perm).

Indeed. To be exact, most of Europe and some of Asia was populated by Finno-Ugrics before the Indo-Europeans arrived. As the Indo-Europeans arrived, they changed the language of the original inhabitants of the region. Genes show that the real Indo-Europeans immigrating to Europe were relatively few in number. In fact, 80%-85% of Balts, Slavs and Indo-Europeans have Finno-Ugric ancestry. Until 1249, Finland remained a powerful and well organized kingdom that had her own armed forces, literature, wealth etc. A thousand years ago (which is a very short time on the long scale), there was a Finno-Ugric "superpower" that ranged from southern Sweden to Moscow (which didn't exist at the time) to Perm (the name Perm derives from Perämaa, literally meaning the land that is at the back). HOWEVER, this was not a "superpower" under one rule. It was more like a bunch of Finnic/Finno-Ugric kingdoms that thrived in trade and collaboration. The people of Karelia, Bjarmland and many others traded a lot with the Finnic peoples in Perm for example. Finn and Kven traders (people from Kvenland, not the so called modern "Kvens" who mostly are Finns living in Finnmark, having nothing to do with the real Kvens of the past) traveled very far from home along the Volga with ships to trade with the Finnic peoples there. As the Slavs came, they were first treated well among the majority, which were Finno-Ugrics. At some point after the Slavs had changed the language of the peoples living in what is today central Russia to their own, they became hostile and eventually destroyed this huge "trade empire". Some Finnic peoples even went past the Urals into Siberia to avoid total destruction. The Slavs killed a lot of Finno-Ugrics and pushed them north. Maybe this could be called one of the first genocides in the history of mankind.

Before you read more:

Note that nowadays many acknowledge the fact that sagas were an oral form of recording history. Although it is known that there were forms of writing in Finland at the time, it was expensive and not all could write. Actually I suppose the majority couldn't write. Depends on which ancient kingdom and area we're talking about, of course.

More about the ancient kingdom of Finland: According to sagas, archeological finds, and genetic research, Finland was a sort of basis for all the future kingdoms of the Nordic countries (and even England!). Apparently many Viking kings were also Finnish. As Finland was a powerful kingdom at the time, it could conquer lands outside the actual Finland. The son of one Thorri, who was king of Finland and Kvenland, the Finnish prince Nórr (spellings vary), conquered Norway, becoming its first king. Dan, Angul and Gor (again, spellings vary) formed three royal families in Denmark's area. Also, from the name Dan derives Denmark's name. From Angul derives Anglia - anglos, who according to saga weren't originally Germanic but instead Finnish. Dan also controlled Wetalahed, which is thought to be the same as the modern province called Finnveden in southern Sweden. Another son of Thorri, Gor, formed the dynasty of sea kings of Denmark. His grandson Östen Gylf became king of Sweden. One of Gor's descendants, a sea jarl named Rognvald, who's son - the enormous sized Gånge Rolf - conquered Normandy and from him directly descend the dukes of Normandy during the Viking Ages, Rouen's jarls, the Orkney-islands' jarls and continuing in a straight line to Wilhelm the Conqueror, who became the former of dynasty in England in 1066.

So according to sagas the anglos and jutes were originally Finnish, who had later germanized from language. Kalevi Wiik has depicted that all Germanics were originally Finnish, but the Indo-Europeans changed their language.

Note that the theory of most of Europe and partly Asia being populated by Finno-Ugric peoples before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans is the most well explained theory in decades and is gaining more and more popularity among researchers/scientists. And of course, gene research back this theory up very well.

 

[unmerged(54011)]

i suggest you move this over to our own new forum see the link above in the other reply's and make there a thread greater finland where you can discus it

 

[General_Grant]

I registered to our new forum, sorry for the time.

Tough about Finland, it won't have a super expension, but cores on many regions. As Sweden was neutral during the war there is no reasons why it should scede territories to Finland. Estonia is a part of the German Reich, but Finland may have embitions on it.

 

[donsmithnottmd]

Help Offer

Wow! And I thought they just made good booze. :rofl:

Seriously, this sounds like a good project. if you need more help let me know.

Indeed. To be exact, most of Europe and some of Asia was populated by Finno-Ugrics before the Indo-Europeans arrived. As the Indo-Europeans arrived, they changed the language of the original inhabitants of the region. Genes show that the real Indo-Europeans immigrating to Europe were relatively few in number. In fact, 80%-85% of Balts, Slavs and Indo-Europeans have Finno-Ugric ancestry. Until 1249, Finland remained a powerful and well organized kingdom that had her own armed forces, literature, wealth etc. A thousand years ago (which is a very short time on the long scale), there was a Finno-Ugric "superpower" that ranged from southern Sweden to Moscow (which didn't exist at the time) to Perm (the name Perm derives from Perämaa, literally meaning the land that is at the back). HOWEVER, this was not a "superpower" under one rule. It was more like a bunch of Finnic/Finno-Ugric kingdoms that thrived in trade and collaboration. The people of Karelia, Bjarmland and many others traded a lot with the Finnic peoples in Perm for example. Finn and Kven traders (people from Kvenland, not the so called modern "Kvens" who mostly are Finns living in Finnmark, having nothing to do with the real Kvens of the past) traveled very far from home along the Volga with ships to trade with the Finnic peoples there. As the Slavs came, they were first treated well among the majority, which were Finno-Ugrics. At some point after the Slavs had changed the language of the peoples living in what is today central Russia to their own, they became hostile and eventually destroyed this huge "trade empire". Some Finnic peoples even went past the Urals into Siberia to avoid total destruction. The Slavs killed a lot of Finno-Ugrics and pushed them north. Maybe this could be called one of the first genocides in the history of mankind.

Before you read more:

Note that nowadays many acknowledge the fact that sagas were an oral form of recording history. Although it is known that there were forms of writing in Finland at the time, it was expensive and not all could write. Actually I suppose the majority couldn't write. Depends on which ancient kingdom and area we're talking about, of course.

More about the ancient kingdom of Finland: According to sagas, archeological finds, and genetic research, Finland was a sort of basis for all the future kingdoms of the Nordic countries (and even England!). Apparently many Viking kings were also Finnish. As Finland was a powerful kingdom at the time, it could conquer lands outside the actual Finland. The son of one Thorri, who was king of Finland and Kvenland, the Finnish prince Nórr (spellings vary), conquered Norway, becoming its first king. Dan, Angul and Gor (again, spellings vary) formed three royal families in Denmark's area. Also, from the name Dan derives Denmark's name. From Angul derives Anglia - anglos, who according to saga weren't originally Germanic but instead Finnish. Dan also controlled Wetalahed, which is thought to be the same as the modern province called Finnveden in southern Sweden. Another son of Thorri, Gor, formed the dynasty of sea kings of Denmark. His grandson Östen Gylf became king of Sweden. One of Gor's descendants, a sea jarl named Rognvald, who's son - the enormous sized Gånge Rolf - conquered Normandy and from him directly descend the dukes of Normandy during the Viking Ages, Rouen's jarls, the Orkney-islands' jarls and continuing in a straight line to Wilhelm the Conqueror, who became the former of dynasty in England in 1066.

So according to sagas the anglos and jutes were originally Finnish, who had later germanized from language. Kalevi Wiik has depicted that all Germanics were originally Finnish, but the Indo-Europeans changed their language.

Note that the theory of most of Europe and partly Asia being populated by Finno-Ugric peoples before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans is the most well explained theory in decades and is gaining more and more popularity among researchers/scientists. And of course, gene research back this theory up very well.

 

[DarkReborn]

But we are speaking of very distant past, its like if you make Spain recover all its old colonies, very unlikely

 

[General_Grant]

I dont seriously think than Finland will regain everything it had a thousand year ago... But a few lands in Carelia, Russia...

 

[unmerged(65250)]

Sorry about causing this bit of off-topic finnish-ness, even though I have just left there, after splitting with my G/F, I still like the country, and some of its people.

Now something completely different, but a little more mod related to Czech Republic.
Has or does anyone heard or know of 'Jan Zizka' 1360 - 11 Oct 1424
Mercenary of Europe, Tactical Genius, Career Warrior, Invented Infantry (in the sense of modern 'infantry based army'), Invented Armoured Fighing Vehicles before Leanordo D'Vinchi.

1-He was amongst the first after the 'dark ages' to use infantry (he created the 1st peasant infantry army in Europe, when all other armies were mostly nobles & knights. This earned him much hatred across Europe at the time. "Peasants! Fighting!? What is the World of Chivalry Coming Too!?" could've been a common exclaimation from Nobles who heard of him.

2-Inventor of the first Armoured Vehicles & devised Tactics IFV's, to counter Knights & nobility; using specially reinforced wagons, one of his tactics have been copied unknowingly as Voortrekker 'Laagers' and US 'Wagon Circles'. Although he used his as a mobile defence/offence against knights. Wagons had thick wood armour & firing holes for muskets, pikes & cannon.

3-He only had one eye, but he could still aim a musket and kill accurately with it, and excelled in close combat, he normally led his men close to or at the front. He also allowed women to fight alongside his men.

4-He knew how to use the landscape to offset his weaknesses. After going completely blind in 1421, he still fought with his men, listening to trusted men about what was happening, and directing the situation successfully

5-During the 5th Crusade (he was an early protestant, so fought against the Pope in the Hussite Wars) such was his level of skill, strategy, tactics, daring and myths surrounding him and his peasant armies, the papal knights wouldn't face him on the battle field.

Jan Zizka died from Bubonic Plague during the siege of Pribyslav on 11 Oct' 1424. It is reported, that he wanted his corpse to be skinned, and the skin used as drum leather, so he could still lead his men to war.

I think he should deserve some Czech Nationalist praise in this mod (even if they are absorbed to Ger) by having a few units of infra/mtn and/or larm/arm carrying his name.

UK alternative info here The Leader
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General and Doctor of Engineering Hans Kammler should be an German tech option maybe, info about him from 2/3rds down this page, he was considered the best engineer of special projects late in the war (although he did do many inhuman things too); used vast amounts of slave labour to create many underground factories, V weapons, & rocketry/jet engines. He completely disappeared after the war. Possibly given new identity & face by Allies or CCCP to help on postwar advanced projects.
Skills; industrial_engineering, technical_efficiency, management, aeronautics, rocketry?

 

[General_Grant]

nomonhan and the others on the team need to register in our new forum, most of the work will continue there, you can keep posting suggestions in this thread.

 

[The_Carbonater]

Suggestion for an Asian war: Pu-Yi wants mongolia (since imperial would have claims on it) USSR, Primorsk and Republiv of China gets the option the intervene in the war, send supplies or protest/dow cause of the peaceful annextion...

 

[Fulmen]

I dont seriously think than Finland will regain everything it had a thousand year ago... But a few lands in Carelia, Russia...

I never meant that Finland should get all the territories that she or other Finnic peoples had thousands of years ago. I was just expanding on razor's post.

 

[unmerged(54011)]

hey gen. grant how is te proses going on the beta just a little question from a teammember. and what is stil needed for the beta?

 

[unmerged(71336)]

Why is Slovakia under Hungary?

 

[unmerged(42794)]

Why is Slovakia under Hungary?

That's how it was before WW1. Then Hungary got split up, and one state that then came into exist was Slovakia.
In fatherland Slovakia is again part of Hungary.