Fate of Iberia's struggle phases should be less rigid

[Vin55]

I am confused by the struggle, I did conquer all of Iberia and did make it christian, but I cannot end the struggle, I am the only real player, as I destroyed all Kingdoms and formed Spain. (I think if u auto win u should be able to form the empire of Iberia thus ending the struggle or have way out, I can never furfill the struggle end now lol). I am mostly a EU4 HOI4 player but have some good hours in CK3 too, but this is just not fun( to not be able to exit)

 

[Captain Outis]

I have a similar experience.

I was two counties short of full culture/religion in my de jure primary title before the hostility phase expiring (as an aside, there is no way to prolong?)

My issue was as above, de jure shift going quicker than I would keep up.

My solution was to take the form new empire decision. I had all of Iberia plus 3 Northern maghrebi kingdoms and Sicily.

They were all still my direct titles the time that the hostility phase came around half a lifetime later (I was spamming buildings to speed it as much as possible)

Only when I get there, I do not hold - and cannot hold - kingdoms that are de jure Hispania (because it doesn't exist) and it doesn't recognise that I have "united" all the kingdoms under my primary title.

My only solution appears to be to succumb to 2 dissolution factions so that I become a Duke and then take the form Portugal decision to revitalise the empire of Hispania.

 

[Amtep]

My only solution appears to be to succumb to 2 dissolution factions so that I become a Duke and then take the form Portugal decision to revitalise the empire of Hispania.

No because dissolution factions are buggy lol. They don't destroy titles anymore.

 

[johnnybgood89]

Im just reloading every defeat and Im fine...

 

[Secret Master]

I guess I'm not the only one facing some problems with phases expiring before I can meet some requirements.

In my current Navarra run though, I was right on the cusp of meeting the requirements for Dominance. I just needed to culture convert 1 more de jure county. But I was sitting at 960 progress to the next phase.

Two weeks before the county converted, I had a duchy de jure drift into the kingdom of Navarra, adding some countries that needed conversion. That was it. There was no way I could meet the Dominance requirements on the current cycle.

But I own basically everything (tooltips say 98% of Iberia), so I can't do Detente or Status quo; they require owning no more than 50%. I'm basically locked out of forming Hispania for a century because de jure drift screwed me.

And I really wanted to end the struggle properly.

 

[toegut]

I guess I'm not the only one facing some problems with phases expiring before I can meet some requirements.

In my current Navarra run though, I was right on the cusp of meeting the requirements for Dominance. I just needed to culture convert 1 more de jure county. But I was sitting at 960 progress to the next phase.

Two weeks before the county converted, I had a duchy de jure drift into the kingdom of Navarra, adding some countries that needed conversion. That was it. There was no way I could meet the Dominance requirements on the current cycle.

But I own basically everything (tooltips say 98% of Iberia), so I can't do Detente or Status quo; they require owning no more than 50%. I'm basically locked out of forming Hispania for a century because de jure drift screwed me.

And I really wanted to end the struggle properly.

Grant independence to your vassals until you get below 50%, then you can do the status quo ending.

 

[Secret Master]

Grant independence to your vassals until you get below 50%, then you can do the status quo ending.

But then won't they become kingdoms if they have more than X counties? I'll never get them back. And the status quo ending destroys Hispania, right?

 

[Greifental]

But I own basically everything (tooltips say 98% of Iberia),

Maybe that's the mistake most players make: When going for the dominance ending you don't have to own the most of Iberia. You just have to make sure that no other independent ruler controls more than 20 %. The more you control above the two needed kingdoms the harder it gets for you to culture convert everything (at least if you don't start as an andalusian character).

But then won't they become kingdoms if they have more than X counties?

Kingdoms and empires are only created in the status quo ending. If they are not kings when granting independence they'll only become kings if they own enough de jure land to create the titles themselves. And it shouldn't be harder to fight against kings than to fight against dukes of the same size. They war power isn't determined by title.

And the status quo ending destroys Hispania, right?

Yes, but it creates new empires instead.

 

[Secret Master]

The more you control above the two needed kingdoms the harder it gets for you to culture convert everything (at least if you don't start as an andalusian character).

Wait, are you saying that there is a culture conversion penalty for owning more than X kingdoms?

I don't think I saw that on tooltips. If so, that would be weird.

Kingdoms and empires are only created in the status quo ending.

Right. Which is the ending he was talking about the post I was responding to.

Yes, but it creates new empires instead.

Right. So, if I follow that advice, I can run a status quo ending at any time, but I won't be able to get those lands back immediately by asking them to become vassals again or something. They'll be empires and kingdoms, too. And if it creates empires, I'm guessing they are de jure, breaking them off Hispania.

You just have to make sure that no other independent ruler controls more than 20 %.

Well, I mean, yeah. Except that the Andalusia had basically conquered the rest of the struggle area in this playthrough, so getting Abdalusia down to less than 20% more or less meant conquering the rest of the struggle area. The final struggle war I fought was with them sitting at above 20%, and it took them down to basically nothing due to how the counties were arranged. (A lot of them shared a border with mine, so I grabbed 10+ counties in a single war; they had eliminated a bunch of Catholic realms in territory not connected territory to their main blob which also bordered me.)

I wasn't trying to conquer everything the hard way as such, it just ended up happening because that's basically what Andalusia was doing.

What's weirder is that this is the second time I've missed the window on Dominance due to phases expiring before I can convert the required counties and culture. The last time, I was a group of Vikings that conquered land in Iberia, hybridized cultures with the local muslims and adopted their faith, then went on a further conquering spree. The mistake I made that time was making Andalusia my primary title. Since it was the biggest, it was difficult to culture convert everything in a timely fashion. Lazy vassals weren't going much to help, either.

On reflection, that seems to be part of the problem. My steward can only be in one place at a time. Vassals are bad at culture converting sometimes. Maybe the trick is to pick whatever the currently smallest kingdom is, don't create it so drift can't happen, but hold one county there. Convert everything in that de jure kingdom. Then create it, move capital there (so it is capital kingdom), and fire the ending.

 

[toegut]

Wait, are you saying that there is a culture conversion penalty for owning more than X kingdoms?

I don't think I saw that on tooltips. If so, that would be weird.



Right. Which is the ending he was talking about the post I was responding to.



Right. So, if I follow that advice, I can run a status quo ending at any time, but I won't be able to get those lands back immediately by asking them to become vassals again or something. They'll be empires and kingdoms, too. And if it creates empires, I'm guessing they are de jure, breaking them off Hispania.



Well, I mean, yeah. Except that the Andalusia had basically conquered the rest of the struggle area in this playthrough, so getting Abdalusia down to less than 20% more or less meant conquering the rest of the struggle area. The final struggle war I fought was with them sitting at above 20%, and it took them down to basically nothing due to how the counties were arranged. (A lot of them shared a border with mine, so I grabbed 10+ counties in a single war; they had eliminated a bunch of Catholic realms in territory not connected territory to their main blob which also bordered me.)

I wasn't trying to conquer everything the hard way as such, it just ended up happening because that's basically what Andalusia was doing.

What's weirder is that this is the second time I've missed the window on Dominance due to phases expiring before I can convert the required counties and culture. The last time, I was a group of Vikings that conquered land in Iberia, hybridized cultures with the local muslims and adopted their faith, then went on a further conquering spree. The mistake I made that time was making Andalusia my primary title. Since it was the biggest, it was difficult to culture convert everything in a timely fashion. Lazy vassals weren't going much to help, either.

On reflection, that seems to be part of the problem. My steward can only be in one place at a time. Vassals are bad at culture converting sometimes. Maybe the trick is to pick whatever the currently smallest kingdom is, don't create it so drift can't happen, but hold one county there. Convert everything in that de jure kingdom. Then create it, move capital there (so it is capital kingdom), and fire the ending.

I assumed you just wanted to get any ending, not specifically the dominance one. I did the status quo as the British Empire by simply conquering most of Iberia and then granting independence to all the small kings of my dynasty (also helped with the what nepotism achievement). I haven't tried the dominance one yet so I might be missing something but shouldn't it be simple? You only need to have your primary title be one culture/religion, no? So don't create Hispania or unite the thrones and then your primary title is Leon or Castile which are pretty homogenous to begin with.

 

[Greifental]

Wait, are you saying that there is a culture conversion penalty for owning more than X kingdoms?

No. But more counties take longer to convert than less counties.

I wasn't trying to conquer everything the hard way as such, it just ended up happening because that's basically what Andalusia was doing.

Ah, I see. That's really a problem. And I guess if you gave independence to the fresh conquered lands before they become de jure of your kingdom, Andalusia would snack them again, right?

 

[Greifental]

You only need to have your primary title be one culture/religion, no? So don't create Hispania or unite the thrones and then your primary title is Leon or Castile which are pretty homogenous to begin with.

Yes. But de jure drift makes this complicated. You must be sure that no duchy not of your culture de jure drifts into your primary title while trying ti fulfill the other requirements. Or you're just starting culture converting again and again.

But constantly changing primary titles may help with that.

 

[Secret Master]

So don't create Hispania or unite the thrones and then your primary title is Leon or Castile which are pretty homogenous to begin with.

I started as Navarra and ran as Basque, so I had some cultural work cut out for me aside from the warfare.

The de jure drift right towards the end really screwed me as the duchy that drifted had a bunch of non-Basque counties in them. And the vassals who'd ruled the area for me for 50 years hadn't bothered to convert them to Basque.

I mean, the good news was that I had run with High Partition for 99% of the game. So, if I had been paying more attention, I could have created Leon or another smaller kingdom and destroyed Navarra. That would have canceled de jure drift to Navarra while I converted the counties.

Listen to me complaining about having more de jure land in my realm.

I assumed you just wanted to get any ending

The Detente ending would be fine as it allows the creation of Hispania. Not ideal (I was going for Dominance), but I could still claim the proper empire.

Status quo would be problematic for me in this particular scenario for a whole list of reasons, including making the entire last 50 years pointless in terms of conquest. It would be like starting over and letting other people form kingdoms and empires. (Not enough male dynasty members left alive at the moment to create a bunch of dynasts as kings.)

And I guess if you gave independence to the fresh conquered lands before they become de jure of your kingdom, Andalusia would snack them again, right?

Yep. That's why I kept up the pressure instead of doing something like stealing just a couple of counties. Andalusia formed a holy order right around the same time I formed the Hospitallers. Some of our big wars involved 20k per side in the 900s between mercenaries, holy orders hired for free, and allies.

Don't get me wrong: the AI gave me a decent game right up until the point where I reduced Andalusia to two counties in a massive war and I realized I wouldn't be able to fire the Domiannce ending before I could convert the new de jure counties. Plenty of intrigue, lots of screwing each other via diplomacy, and the staple of most CK3 games: people dying at inconvinent times so that successions go bad and alliances end right when you need them. Hell, Andalusia managed to do something I've never seen it do in Iberia: the Umayyads stayed in power and remained powerful right up until I drove a stake through the heart of their empire. Usually, I see the YUMads collapse to religious rebels, dissolution wars, or bad successions. In this game, aside from a brief period when they split in half, they remained potent and strong throughout.

Maybe that's why I'm salty. It was a great game... right up until I achieved my major foreign policy goal, and I realized that everything I had fought for over the past century was meaningless because I can't reap the rewards for Dominance despite, well, being dominant. My "dominance" of Iberia failed because I mistimed some culture converting and de jure drift.

 

[Greifental]

Status quo would be problematic for me in this particular scenario for a whole list of reasons, including making the entire last 50 years pointless in terms of conquest. It would be like starting over and letting other people form kingdoms and empires.

But if you control 98 % of Iberia there are only 2 % left to create anything.

Or would your realm somehow fall apart? Didn't happen to me with status quo. Although I have to say that I controlled much less Iberian land than you do.

 

[Secret Master]

But if you control 98 % of Iberia there are only 2 % left to create anything.

Maybe I'm reading the tooltips wrong, but the doesn't a status quo ending promote independent duchies to kingdoms, and kingdoms of a certain size to empires?

 

[Greifental]

independent

That's the keyword here. You're vassals aren't independent. So it may create them de jure but de facto you shouldn't lose anything.

 

[Secret Master]

That's the keyword here. You're vassals aren't independent. So it may create them de jure but de facto you shouldn't lose anything.

?

But in order not to control 50% or more of Iberia, I have to grant independence to some of my vassals. Which means they would be independent when I fire the ending. Which would result in promotions to kingdoms and empires for all qualifying lands, right? I won't be able to get them back without re-fighting a bunch of conquest wars, except I don't have claims or struggle CBs, they won't become vassals voluntarily, and de jure Hispania is now a patchwork of de jure kingdoms and empires.

Or are you saying I can break these vassals down into individual 1 county guys and grant them independence, fire the ending, then they can't get promoted to kingdoms and empires because they are all OPMs?

 

[Greifental]

Oh, sorry. Yes. I forget about the 50 %.