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TenshiN

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So, i really like playing Ming. Yet the Inward Perfection modifier is really frustrating, as my armies still look pathetic even when i own like entire east asia. And a very simple question: A quick way to westernize with them? For me, its usually just some random chance, or getting a lucky colony in africa when the nearby province is still not in a trade company.
 
I

indika_tates

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There is no "fast" way to westernize. First off, take exploration ideas. Fill the first three ideas to get +50% colonial range and after, raise DIP tech to level 7 to get another +50%. You have two ways to do it: through India or America. Jump between non-tropical islands if possible until you found a western core (make sure that province is not part of a trade company). After that you should be able to westernize, but Ming have high basetax and it will take too long.

Here is a good guide about it:
http://www.eu4wiki.com/Ming
 

TheMeInTeam

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Sigh. Okay, I'll give advice that's accurate since the wiki articles are still out of date for strategy in many cases and I haven't done anything about some of it so I can't complain too much ^_^.

The fastest way to westernize right now requires only quest for the new world. Get fleet rights, explore to Brazil + Caribbean, and have enough ADM so you can buy back 2 stab after no-CB on Portugal. Anyway, when they have a colony at 900-950 population, no-CB them, seize it, and peace out. You'll have to give them money and war reparations but oh well.

It's recommended to have DIP 3 or exploration ideas 4 so the colony will actually finish in a timely fashion. When it does, you have a core. As long as this is adjacent to a western core, you can westernize. My record in 1.7 was 1511.

Now, some speculation is that such will be changed or nerfed. I'd rather see the westernization requirements simply be reworked so that there's no true incentive to seize colony to westernize, and historically PI has instead come up with solutions that frustrate me, but 1.8 has some really good stuff so we'll see if they leave it, nerf it oddly, or change things up. If that comes to pass, there are a few other methods available as well, that can get you there much more quickly than bothering with DIP 7.

Besides, you can colonize Alaska at DIP 3 from Siberia now, all you need is 240 range from tech + exploration 3. If you want to go that route, just vassal someone in Mexico early so you can diploannex them when you get a colony in range. If you can also annex a minor on the coast to chain down there faster, so much the better because it will save you colony time.
 

TheDanish

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I followed TMIT's strategy and westernized by 1501 off Castile. Also, dump your money into ships before you send a peace deal to "hide" your treasury from the AI (also one of TMIT's suggestions).

If you do it early, the dividends are amazing. 122 force limit, 80k army, +40 ducats/month. In my game it's 1620, 180 FL maxed, and 2/3 of Iberia and all of North Africa is mine.
 

qijiang_ok

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The best strategy now is rushing to Sweden, crushing Chagatai, Golden Horde, Ryazan, Russia, Novogorod on the road, vassalize Chagatai, Golden Horde, Ryazan. I have seen an AAR video, he westernized in the 1500s in 1.9 with this strategy. Don't be stingy on you MP, only keeping up with military technology.

This strategy is stable, and can defeat your biggest foe - Russia early, although Russia is not so awful in 1.9.
 
Last edited:

toroltao

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This all sounds incredibly gamey. Rushing colony capture, beeline to Sweden, "Westernize" a country the size of Europe centuries before westernization was even a thing, and proceed to conquer the entire world.
 

slv

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This all sounds incredibly gamey. Rushing colony capture, beeline to Sweden, "Westernize" a country the size of Europe centuries before westernization was even a thing, and proceed to conquer the entire world.
Doesn't sound more gamey than being behind of tech before European tech dominance was even thing.
 

Castrolol

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The above is all terrible advice.
To rush westernisation just get exploration. Explore the New World. Snipe a nearly finished Iberian colony that borders another. Wait for it to finish. Westernise.

Westernisation at around ~1510
 

toroltao

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Doesn't sound more gamey than being behind of tech before European tech dominance was even thing.

It's not that bad since Ming can afford +3 advisers.

The idea is so that Ming doesn't subjugate its western neighbors and blob to Europe, but honestly I think with the faction system and Inward Perfection, it's already more than enough to cripple AI Ming.

The above is all terrible advice.
To rush westernisation just get exploration. Explore the New World. Snipe a nearly finished Iberian colony that borders another. Wait for it to finish. Westernise.

Westernisation at around ~1510

That's basically what the second post said.
 

Castrolol

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That's basically what the second post said.
In the same way black paint is basically snow.

Lists way too many unneeded steps and takes ridiculously more time. You don't need to research any techs or even colonise to rush westernisation. You just need QftNW, a couple of cogs and about 3 thousand of your best and brightest soon-to-be vacationers.
 

lordreaven448

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In the same way black paint is basically snow.

Lists way too many unneeded steps and takes ridiculously more time. You don't need to research any techs or even colonise to rush westernisation. You just need QftNW, a couple of cogs and about 3 thousand of your best and brightest soon-to-be vacationers.
Do you go to the New world via the pacific?
 

Castrolol

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I generally find it easier to go around Africa even as an Asian country since there are more nations to get fleet basing rights. You can go around the Pacific (and it is in theory faster) but you have no guarantee of the nomadic natives being on the coast meaning you can easily lose the ships to attrition.
 

bbqftw

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In the same way black paint is basically snow.

Lists way too many unneeded steps and takes ridiculously more time. You don't need to research any techs or even colonise to rush westernisation. You just need QftNW, a couple of cogs and about 3 thousand of your best and brightest soon-to-be vacationers.
how hard is it to read the entire thread?
 

TheMeInTeam

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The above is all terrible advice.
To rush westernisation just get exploration. Explore the New World. Snipe a nearly finished Iberian colony that borders another. Wait for it to finish. Westernise.

Westernisation at around ~1510

In other words, the advice you gave is terrible because it's the same advice worded a bit differently so follow it?

If you want to debate the merits of going DIP 3 vs not, that's reasonable. I find its boosts to local colonization range to be worth getting en route to ADM 4, but maybe the #'s don't add up there, even though that makes it much more plausible to reach + colonize non-tropical while westernizing.

If you want to rudely spout overt inaccuracy and tell people to do mutually exclusive things, as below, you're not going to be particularly convincing to anybody.

In the same way black paint is basically snow.

Lists way too many unneeded steps and takes ridiculously more time

Unless you can't read, apparently 1 year is "ridiculously more time"? Of course, my time was last patch, so maybe it's even faster now.

You don't need to research any techs or even colonise to rush westernisation. You just need QftNW

Wat.

Africa is definitely more consistent than going through the Pacific, and not slower AFAIK as there's much less TI to uncover to reach Africa then Alaska + guaranteed FBR as you say. The Iberians won't colonize anything you can seize from the west coast of the Americas anyway so you'll need to either land and walk a conq for a long time or go around Cape Horn if coming from the West. I'm not sure that's faster even in theory, maybe if everything were revealed.

The most typical seize spots are strait crossings in Caribbean and Brazil.
 

Castrolol

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Yeah sorry guys, I messed up. Completely missed TheMeInTeam post and thought toroltao was talking about indika_tates' post (mistook what was regarded as the second post). I posted this while in a pretty foul mood and while not trying to be rude it clearly leaked into the tone of the text.

Consider this an apology. TheMeInTeam had everything right in his first reply.