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Broletariat90

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I was wondering if anyone has seen anything in regards to a possibility of a Fascist Britain led by Sir Oswald Mosley and Edward VIII. I know that historically even some in the Army had some very far right tendencies such as Major General Fuller, fascist sympathizer and occultist. You would think we would see such a possibility in the national trees. So far I haven't seen anything. I know it is a possibility for both France and the U.S as well.

I really hope this is included in the game because its a scenario I've always wanted to try out in Darkest Hour. Is it possible to do in any other games in the series?
 
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Stevenside

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It seems that electing a political advisor from fascist/communist/democratic will put you on a line of events that risk civil war. And a change of faction.

I expect Vidkun Quisling from Norway to be a selectable fascist sympathiser choice that will take you on the path to Fascist Norway. (Just a example i know)
 

Vukodav

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I was wondering if anyone has seen anything in regards to a possibility of a Fascist Britain led by Sir Oswald Mosley and Edward VIII. I know that historically even some in the Army had some very far right tendencies such as Major General Fuller, fascist sympathizer and occultist. You would think we would see such a possibility in the national trees. So far I haven't seen anything. I know it is a possibility for both France and the U.S as well.

I really hope this is included in the game because its a scenario I've always wanted to try out in Darkest Hour. Is it possible to do in any other games in the series?


Every nation can be fascist in HOI4, including UK.
 
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CrasherZZ

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That would be a fascinating and intriguing scenario. Hitler did have a lot of respect for England because Anglo-Saxons did originate from Germany. Wish I knew more about it. Can you imagine a Germany/UK alliance? I think it will be possible in the new HOI4 diplomacy system.
 
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Broletariat90

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That would be a fascinating and intriguing scenario. Hitler did have a lot of respect for England because Anglo-Saxons did originate from Germany. Wish I knew more about it. Can you imagine a Germany/UK alliance? I think it will be possible in the new HOI4 diplomacy system.

I think it would create a scenario with a lot of crazy what if's. Like I've said, we have seen it in the French Tree. I realllllly hope it's included in the U.K's tree.
 

Aries666

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We dont know if it is in the focus tree but we do know that everyone can change ideology, that the diplomacy system could handle it and that factions can be disbanded. This means at the very least the UK should be able to go into civil war to get fascists in power, disband the allies and then join the axis and gang up on the Soviets.
 

Fulmen

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Yes, you can push a magic button and within two years over 50% of your population will be supporting the party of your choice. Makes no sense, but hey, what can you do.
 
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Broletariat90

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So yeah the idea of changing overall policy is ridiculous. Hence why maybe this new version of HOI should start with 1933, but I'm pretty sure DLC will solve that issue.. I mean the BUF was extremely popular until 1934. So that could be a major point of future selling point.

What I'm saying is that both French and American trees offer crazy fascist what if scenarios. Why not the U.K? We have all seen the DD's. I can find the images if you want to see them. I'm just concerned that I haven't seen a similar tree development for the United Kingdom.
 
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LordOfWar16

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Changing ideology is possible, yes. National Focus have nothing to do with it, tho. You have to choose an advisor that causes support for an certain ideology you want to be. Their support will then rise over time and eventually you either change peacefully or it will cause an civil war. Depending on your country it is easier or harder to change ideology of course.

Germany could for example change to democratic, but it would be very hard to do so and will 100% cause an civil war in the country. There is no way for an peacefull change, really.

Johan actually tweeted about his norway campaign, where he changed ideology aswell. He turned Norway into an communist country and invaded sweden (how could he).

We actually saw some screenshots of fascist Britian, where the UK was called British Empire, and had an Thunderbolt in the flag.
Ns9jaS7.jpg
 
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CrasherZZ

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A Civil War with a well scattered Empire sounds pretty hard and chaotic

That would be a game in itself. The Commonwealth could splinter. Canada could stay democratic, with various puppets choosing opposite sides, Australia choosing fascism but New Zealand choosing democracy. Might be too much for WW2 historical game?
 
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BBBD316

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Well the UK does have NF's to go after the Benlux and Nordic nations. So it could technically align and take those lands for themselves.

Though it doesn't sound very exciting as you would need to go after the US to make a game out of it. A Germany that can trade with the world and invade Russia should do much better.
 

griffor

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That would be a game in itself. The Commonwealth could splinter. Canada could stay democratic, with various puppets choosing opposite sides, Australia choosing fascism but New Zealand choosing democracy. Might be too much for WW2 historical game?

sounds like a awesome multiplayer game though
 
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Orinsul

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Historically speaking, nothing would really change, except britain would probably lose as Mosley was convinced Germany was too scary and powerful, so couldn't be defeated so would be more likely to surrender at the first sign of trouble. You'd just have two frances.
Maybe if they came to power early enough it could mean britain having a larger airforce, as they believe air was the future of war and the lack of a large airforce was why britain would lose the war.
But like, the amount of compromises they'd need to stay in power and enlarge the air force would mean that's all they'd be able to change.
And we're talking about people who weren't even able to hold their party together, so there'd be alot of compromises, it'd probably just be a Labour government with BUF cabinet ministers giving alot of speeches but not really doing anything. And lots of infighting and scandals to sap away national unity and resolve.

But really, they'd still be on the same side of the war, the policies wouldn't really change, things like the Land Army management, were taken from the british fascists. Really the conservatives in WW2 did more radical reforms than the BUF were proposing to do.
The B.U.F. didn't really want to change very much in the short term, basically it'd be if a completely rubbish and incompetent version of the labour party came to power.

If it's not the historical B.U.F. if you put the British Nazis in power somehow, you could get something interesting.

Maybe India would be independent as the BUF talked about that alot, but more likely, it was empty talk and nothing would happen if they came into power, especially with a war on the horizon threatening that india would be needed. The same with their ideas for developing the colonies to be able to absorb british goods, no way would they do that if they needed to keep exploiting the colonies to fight a war. Or the Empire would be more self reliant, as not importing grain from europe was a big policy, but really, during WW2 britain did all that anyway. so no change just alittle earlier.
So basically, nothing would change except it would be Mosley being used to sell dogfood today instead of Churchill, or Britain would have lost the war, Mosley would have died in prison and someone like Fuller or Joyce (Lord Haw-Haw) heading an unpopular puppet government, someone middle of the road conservative leading a by circumstance puppet government, that probably wouldn't be as unpopular as it wouldn't be seen as as willing but, would be hated.
Germans were really hated at the time, not because of Nazism but because of WW1 and the years of anti-german sensationalism before it so no one working with them would be ok.

But really, It's just two frances.

If you say the Fascists came to power before the start of the game, you could do something fun like, the war starts over Austria with the UK and Italy going to war against germany? as some fascists wanted that back then. Or just make them more pro-nazi or go with the british nazis, but them being a government is even more out there than the BUF who like, could atleast be said to have reconciled with Labour or something and come to power by wearing blueshirts instead of black and not being seeing to be too foreign? But if they went more foreign, more fascisti or nazi, then they become more impossible

This was a real possibility back at the time. Churchill was very much the main factor against it happening.

He really wasn't. Mosley repeatedly doing the thing least popular, fanboying over mussolini and having no control over his own party or it's public image was a main factor against that happening.
 
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Sleight of Hand

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This was a real possibility back at the time. Churchill was very much the main factor against it happening.
Churchill was one of the few senior politicians to back Edward VIII over his decision to marry Wallace Simpson (Churchill's mother was herself an American) and told him not to abdicate, and to take on the Establishment. Eventually Edward relented of course, but had Churchill got his way things would have been very different. As was often the case, Churchill was on the wrong side of History!
 
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If Churchill had gotten his way, Fascist Britain is actually not just possible but plausible, as during the general strike, he ordered machine guns fire on strikers picking with their wives and children in hyde park.
If that had happened, there would have been an uprising.
In a world where there had been a communist uprising after Churchill had ordered the army kill british women and children, Fascists coming to power in the counter-revolution could totally happen, but who would lead them? Probably people who were mainstream in our universe.
Maybe even Churchill himself? I mean, he is the closest britain gets to a hitler figure anyway. cult of personality, responsible for genocide, more radical beliefs than anyone else in mainstream politics, etc. And actually respected and establishment enough to pull it off.
 
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Bennyy

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Dec 25, 2011
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I can't help but thinking that in this scenario where the UK allied with Germany, there would be no western war. France would have no chance against combined Anglo-German forces and the USA would have no hope of taking on the Royal Navy backed up by the Italian and German fleets. Furthermore British belligerence would mean Germany wouldn't have to bother with a naval program, nor would it have had its industrial heartlands bombed, nor would it have had trouble sourcing material for its war effort. Hence Barbarossa would likely have been a success (maybe coupled with a British invasion via the Baltic or Black seas?) and it would have been less of a world war and more of a Facist - Communist war, almost exclusively fought in Russia and Poland.
 
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