Fanatic Xenophobe with slavery and purge not allowed

[nfmarque]

Greetings,
Can anyone make the fanatic xenophobe work?
I tried for the first time this fanatic ethos with slavery and purge not allowed and everyone in the galaxy hates me for some reason.
I'm always at war, almost everyone is my rival and i never declared war at anyone. My expansion is from planets i took from defensive wars.

Only managed to survive because every time i get gang up by the ai i save then after i check the closest enemy stack i tailor my ships so i can win in 1:2 .

Did anyone get this thing to work? i am fanatic xenophobe + spiritualist.

Also i fail do see why xenophiles would join up with slaver despots...
The irony is that i am liberating slaves

 

[Foefaller]

Xenophobia comes with a diplomatic malus, which I believe is even greater as a Fanatic Xenophobe, and IIRC either washes out or superseds any bonus you normal get with dealing with Xenophile empires.

Also, it doesn't matter whether you got your worlds with an offensive war or a defensive one, if it wasn't an FE or Fanatical Purifier, it raises your threat with everyone else in the galaxy. That means a negative diplo modifier for you (on top of Xenophobia), and positive modifiers for everyone else towards everyone else.

So even if you never said it was ok to purge and enslave, it could only take a few wars where you cleaned out to get everyone to hate you enough to band together and try to take you out.

 

[The Founder]

Can anyone make the fanatic xenophobe work?
I tried for the first time this fanatic ethos with slavery and purge not allowed and everyone in the galaxy hates me for some reason.

You get -40 Relations just for Being a Fanatic Xenophobe. This negates any "Fanatic Xenophile" bonus others would have agaisnt you. And tacks with other peoples "Fanatic Xenophobe".
Fanatic Xenophobe is basically "No Diplomacy, period".

I'm always at war, almost everyone is my rival and i never declared war at anyone. My expansion is from planets i took from defensive wars.

Who declared the war does not mater. What maters is that you took those planets. That produces threat.

Also i fail do see why xenophiles would join up with slaver despots...
The irony is that i am liberating slaves

A Fanatic Xenophile/Collectivist Empires is just as possible as a Fanatic Xenophile/Pacifist one.
And if the shared threat is big enough, anything short of "No Diplomacy" will not deter the AI's from allying against a common foe.

 

[Wolfgang I]

Some diplomacy is recommended at least early in a game. I tried Fanatic Purifier playthroughs but on insane with otherwise normal settings the AI crushes me early on if I do no diplomacy and purge primitives.

You should be able to get at least some treaties with certain kinds Slaving Despots, Evangelizing Zealots and Hegemonic Imperialists if you try to. Stacking rivalry helps a lot.


If you want are not interested in purging and stuff you can add pacifist to the mix but I think you can't invade primitive worlds that way.
That way you get cheaper treaties and can make at least some friends.

 

[nfmarque]

Some diplomacy is recommended at least early in a game. I tried Fanatic Purifier playthroughs but on insane with otherwise normal settings the AI crushes me early on if I do no diplomacy and purge primitives.

You should be able to get at least some treaties with certain kinds Slaving Despots, Evangelizing Zealots and Hegemonic Imperialists if you try to. Stacking rivalry helps a lot.


If you want are not interested in purging and stuff you can add pacifist to the mix but I think you can't invade primitive worlds that way.
That way you get cheaper treaties and can make at least some friends.

I tried that, gave 2 minerals for nothing and then ... made me a rival.

 

[Wolfgang I]

I tried that, gave 2 minerals for nothing and then ... made me a rival.

That's bad luck I guess. It helps if you have no borders at least until you get treaties in.
I usually try to ally with the most powerful empires as soon as possible even as a Fanatic Xenophobe.
Declaring rivalry with the 3 rivals of an empire is usually enough from my experience. You can always guarantee independence too but that's a bit riskier.
Onesided research treaties are also helpful.

My two non-subject "friends" in my current game. I could have even more but I don't bother with weak empires and Defensive Pacts are expensive for a non-pacifist. Early in the game I had a lot of Non-Aggression Pacts with other pro-slavery empires (I just noticed there is one still need to cancel ).

My empire.

You see it's possible.

 

[nfmarque]

That's bad luck I guess. It helps if you have no borders at least until you get treaties in.
I usually try to ally with the most powerful empires as soon as possible even as a Fanatic Xenophobe.
Declaring rivalry with the 3 rivals of an empire is usually enough from my experience. You can always guarantee independence too but that's a bit riskier.
Onesided research treaties are also helpful.

Impressive sir
How did you managed?
After contact quick bribe? Can you explain?
What reply dialog did you use? The starting positions were random or cluster?
Thanks.

This is happened to me:
After first contact i was rivaled, and the ones that don't i tried to bribe with some minerals but had no luck. Also soon enough everyone rivaled me because all cool kids were doing it.

 

[Repeats]

I had a Fanatic Xenophobe playthrough go to extreme late game in Aggressive + Normal settings without Advanced Neighbors + End Game Crisis. My one saving grace was having a defensive pact with a Fanatic Collectivist + Xenophobe. In order to survive, you will need at a decent alliance with someone just as evil as you are. Without it, I don't think its possible because of trade issues during war, etc. Yes, you will be at war a lot of time and everyone hates you, but its still pretty fun.

 

[The Founder]

Some diplomacy is recommended at least early in a game. I tried Fanatic Purifier playthroughs but on insane with otherwise normal settings the AI crushes me early on if I do no diplomacy and purge primitives.

In 1.4 and earlier, Fanatic Purifier AI type has a "Advanced Start Chance = 100%".

In 1.5 Fanatic Purifier becomes a DLC Civic choice, that gives a imbalanced high boost to Fleet and Army damage. Just to offset that you will have issues talking with anyone.

 

[Wolfgang I]

Impressive sir
How did you managed?
After contact quick bribe? Can you explain?
What reply dialog did you use? The starting positions were random or cluster?
Thanks.

This is happened to me:
After first contact i was rivaled, and the ones that don't i tried to bribe with some minerals but had no luck. Also soon enough everyone rivaled me because all cool kids were doing it.

I used random and I guess it's easier that way.
That's the setup for that session. (I use warp only because my game lags less late game when I do that)

I actually attacked the first empire I encountered and turned them into a tributary after a short war but only after I discovered that said empire was not an advanced AI...

I sent out a number of corvettes to scout most of the map and contacted most empires as fast as possible.
I think the first contact reply does not matter at all when it comes to diplomacy it's just there for flavour.
Once that was done I looked at the most powerful empires and rivaled the rivals of the two empires that hated me the least.
It helps if there is a Fanatic Purifier around because most empires will rival it. Mutual hatred is a great thing.
IIRC I also signed onesided research agreements to increase the speed of thrust growth(30 duration years is ok from my experience because it's unlikely that advanced AIs will sign mutual research agreements with you until you got ressources and lot's of minerals to bribe them).
At that point I was able to sign Non-Agression pacts with them(and also with some other lesser empires which shared the same rivals) shortly afterwards Defensive Pacts were signed(I was still among the weakest empires at that time).

 

[nfmarque]

I used random and I guess it's easier that way.
That's the setup for that session. (I use warp only because my game lags less late game when I do that)

I actually attacked the first empire I encountered and turned them into a tributary after a short war but only after I discovered that said empire was not an advanced AI...

I sent out a number of corvettes to scout most of the map and contacted most empires as fast as possible.
I think the first contact reply does not matter at all when it comes to diplomacy it's just there for flavour.
Once that was done I looked at the most powerful empires and rivaled the rivals of the two empires that hated me the least.
It helps if there is a Fanatic Purifier around because most empires will rival it. Mutual hatred is a great thing.
IIRC I also signed onesided research agreements to increase the speed of thrust growth(30 duration years is ok from my experience because it's unlikely that advanced AIs will sign mutual research agreements with you until you got ressources and lot's of minerals to bribe them).
At that point I was able to sign Non-Agression pacts with them(and also with some other lesser empires which shared the same rivals) shortly afterwards Defensive Pacts were signed(I was still among the weakest empires at that time).

Nice, good stuff there, i never use research agreements as bribe, will try it next time.

I had a Fanatic Xenophobe playthrough go to extreme late game in Aggressive + Normal settings without Advanced Neighbors + End Game Crisis. My one saving grace was having a defensive pact with a Fanatic Collectivist + Xenophobe. In order to survive, you will need at a decent alliance with someone just as evil as you are. Without it, I don't think its possible because of trade issues during war, etc. Yes, you will be at war a lot of time and everyone hates you, but its still pretty fun.

I am not playing evil
Empire was fanatic xenophobe+star empire for the 20%+20% border extrusion.
Ones policies should makes you good or evil, not ethos.

As per decree the glorious emperor of the space HRE rules that:
-No purge is allowed
-No Slavery is allowed
-Orbital Bombardment is set to limited
-Social Welfare Programs are enacted

Is this evil? I think not sir

 

[Stoßtrupp Gold]

So you´re taking fanatic xenophobe only for the border extrusion?
Simply not worth it.

 

[Wolfgang I]

Nice, good stuff there, i never use research agreements as bribe, will try it next time.


I am not playing evil
Empire was fanatic xenophobe+star empire for the 20%+20% border extrusion.
Ones policies should makes you good or evil, not ethos.

As per decree the glorious emperor of the space HRE rules that:
-No purge is allowed
-No Slavery is allowed
-Orbital Bombardment is set to limited
-Social Welfare Programs are enacted

Is this evil? I think not sir

Research treaties work well because they start thrust growth(max trust is 50) and they cost no influence unlike guarantees.

On thing you should keep in mind is that you can't join Federations if the game considers you a Fanatic Purifier. I dunno if that happens when you are a Fanatic Xenophobe/Spiritualist though. You can check when you set the map mode to opinion(your opinion of them not the other way round). Because of that you should be ready to stand on your own once defensive pacts get replaced by Federations.

 

[nfmarque]

So you´re taking fanatic xenophobe only for the border extrusion?
Simply not worth it.

Hmmm,
xenophobe+star empire = 2 purple techs for free right there.

 

[Caspoi]

Well, if you hate aliens then it is no wonder that they also hate you, complain all you want but that fanatical xenophobe ethos represents something more than just more border extrusion.

 

[nfmarque]

Well, if you hate aliens then it is no wonder that they also hate you, complain all you want but that fanatical xenophobe ethos represents something more than just more border extrusion.

Negative sir.
Xenophobe is fearful of aliens not hateful. How did come to that conclusion? One could be collectivist and xenophile while purging aliens, does that makes it friendly to aliens? I think not sir!

 

[Caspoi]

Negative sir.
Xenophobe is fearful of aliens not hateful. How did come to that conclusion? One could be collectivist and xenophile while purging aliens, does that makes it friendly to aliens? I think not sir!

Yes you would be friendly, if you purge them it is not for being aliens (or it is and you are being a xenophobe in denial, which is probably why it was removed from authoritarianism). As for hatred the text description alludes to the idea that they consider aliens creatures that should not exist and in game effects is that they hate all alien pops and empires and are perfectly fine with you exterminating or enslaving all of them.

 

[nfmarque]

Yes you would be friendly, if you purge them it is not for being aliens (or it is and you are being a xenophobe in denial, which is probably why it was removed from authoritarianism). As for hatred the text description alludes to the idea that they consider aliens creatures that should not exist and in game effects is that they hate all alien pops and empires and are perfectly fine with you exterminating or enslaving all of them.

I don't know where you get that xeno phobe = hateful, since phobia is fear...

 

[Sibericus]

I remember some people talking about a Fanatic Xenophobe/Pacifist playthrough as Xenophobic Isolationists. Tried it for myself and I probably could have made it work if I had been more diplomatically involved with the advanced neighbor I expanded towards instead of the smaller empire near my homeworld. I was covering nearly twice the area of the advanced empire, but I lacked the military to defend myself from them. Went with extremely adaptive, charismatic, solitary, sedentary, and fleeting. The trick is to colonize as much territory as possible, guarantee independence and establish research agreements before they can rival you, so you can get into non-aggression pacts later, then spam frontier outposts to snag habitable worlds just within your neighbors' borders.

Roleplay wise, this species is similar to Pierson's puppeteers, except more xenophobic and less pacifistic. They are helpful to other species to keep them the hell away, preferring to use manipulation and subversion to deal with outside threats.

 

[Caspoi]

I don't know where you get that xeno phobe = hateful, since phobia is fear...

And a democratic monarchy is a fallacy in any country with more than one inhabitant, yet I live in one. Words can have wider meanings than their most literal interpretation, believe it or not.