Fanatic Purifiers should be able to do diplomacy with members of their own species

[Fourthspartan56]

Xenophobia isn't only possible background of fanatic purifier.

The whole point of Fanatic Purifiers is that you want to purge all alien life because you see it as a cosmic mistake. That seems pretty xenophobic to me.

- Religion (Spiritual background) - You are purifying entire worlds of infidels, not intending to convert anyone (Heretics of Dune, Dune Chapterhouse - core classics of SciFi genre). Race doesn't matter

Why would you refuse to convert them? If it's tied to species then I would qualify it simply as Fanatic Xenophobic.

- Rulers will (authoritarian background) - Leader/Governament order destroying world or even entire race for pure power projection (Star Wars, LEXX, WH:40000)

That's just localized mass murder, nothing to do with Fanatical Purifiers.

- Expansion (materialism background) - Specific race is technologically superior and find other races as useless obstacles is their patch to power. They are removing such obstacles because of pragmatic reasons, and purification-on-sight is considered as most efficient procedure (Unicron, Borg and... Time Lords, before Galifrey Fall)

I still see this as xenophobic, the fact that you view other races as useless obstacles is clear xenophobia.

Thing I really hate is lack of imagination - especially when good examples are at hand.

All the examples you gave were either xenophobic or not fanatical purifiers, not sure I would qualify them as correct examples IMHO.

 

[Avian Overlord]

Exept they are not. They are typical spiritualist-autocrats with "doctrinal enforcers" mentality.

Fanatical Purifiers being even crazier than ISIL does not rebut my point. In fact it supports it.

 

[The Founder]

Fanatic purifiers are currently slated to prevent ALL diplomacy. Instead it should prevent diplomacy with Xeno empires. For example lets say the empire lets a vassal go, or a rebellion leads to another empire of the same primary species. This empire would be OK to talk to (even if they ARE traitors pigs, at least they are <Species>!")

There alredy is such a exception for Xenophobia effects on Diplomacy.
I asume it will apply to Fanatic Purifiers too. It is just to much of a fringe case, to explictly mention in a tooltip.

 

[Diezy]

Probably, after Fanatical Purifier wins the war (unless they are at war with everything by default and occupying a world automatically makes it theirs(same rule for losing a world)), first, the planet is ceded, and then it auto-purges any xenos on that planet. Your own species wouldn't count as xenos, so they'd be exempt from that script and not get auto-purged.

So I'm not too worried about colaterals, unless we Armageddon the target world.

On the other hand, would dissenters of their own race be spared, or purged as well due to having their "purity compromised"? They didn't "Fanatically Purify" enough if they're still there! Probably did some heresy too!

 

[The Founder]

Probably, after Fanatical Purifier wins the war (unless they are at war with everything by default and occupying a world automatically makes it theirs(same rule for losing a world)), first, the planet is ceded, and then it auto-purges any xenos on that planet. Your own species wouldn't count as xenos, so they'd be exempt from that script and not get auto-purged.

So I'm not too worried about colaterals, unless we Armageddon the target world.

On the other hand, would dissenters of their own race be spared, or purged as well due to having their "purity compromised"? They didn't "Fanatically Purify" enough if they're still there! Probably did some heresy too!

There is no selective purging of diverging pops in 1.5. It was never intended to be a "fix" for divergence. The opposite (cause of divergence) was the goal.

I estimate a pop to be something between 500 million to 1 billion humans. Whatever low level of forcefull conversion/incarceration/killing happens is already part of the Ethics Divergence mechanic. The Purge is a few orders of magnitude beyond even what Northkorea does with dissenters.

 

[Adamsrealm]

Fanatical purifiers should be locked out of alliances, and most pacts.

However they should still be allowed to trade somewhat.

 

[Exarian]

Fanatical purifiers should be locked out of alliances, and most pacts.

However they should still be allowed to trade somewhat.

Have You ever seen Dalek trader?

 

[HandicapdHippo]

The only way another empire with you species would exist is if you lost a liberation war, why would they even contemplate talking to a govemment whose foundations was created by xenos and filled with collaboraters? They would likely view them as corrupted beyond salvation and untrustworthy.

 

[Cat_Fuzz]

If you breakdown the words, it's obvious why this shouldn't be the case:

Fanatic - Filled with or expressing excessive zeal

Purify - To cleanse or remove of contamination.

So if your own species, for whatever reason, are no longer part of your empire, they are tainted. If you were a 'purifier' sure you may think about talking them back round to your way of thinking instead of erasing them from your empires history books.

The key word though is Fanatic. It specifically says 'excessive' zeal. If something is unclean, it needs to go away as quickly and efficiently as possible.

If you want to parlay with a species, don't declare that you want everyone else dead.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Fanatical Purifiers being even crazier than ISIL does not rebut my point. In fact it supports it.

The issue with ISIL is that they are unethical pariahs by comparison, not so much violent extremists having intrinsic utter incapability for diplomacy.

I mean, egalitarian xenophiles will presumably hate the guts of fanatic purifiers of same species already (particularly if they engage in all the purgin' they are encouraged to do), so there is already soft restriction. No need for additional hard restriction as I see it. Diplomacy with empires of same founding species should be possible depending on circumstances.

 

[The Founder]

The issue with ISIL is that they are unethical pariahs by comparison, not so much violent extremists having intrinsic utter incapability for diplomacy.

I mean, egalitarian xenophiles will presumably hate the guts of fanatic purifiers of same species already (particularly if they engage in all the purgin' they are encouraged to do), so there is already soft restriction. No need for additional hard restriction as I see it. Diplomacy with empires of same founding species should be possible depending on circumstances.

I am convinced they are able to do that already:

There alredy is such a exception for Xenophobia effects on Diplomacy.
I asume it will apply to Fanatic Purifiers too. It is just to much of a fringe case, to explictly mention in a tooltip.

Everything remotely related to Xenophobia/philia has the Race check in:
CoM can interact with UNS without any Xenophobia/Philia effect for either side.
Even subspecies* do not trigger Repugnant/Charismatic/Xenophobia/Xenophilia.
Only exception is FP's not even accepting thier own species as Deal Partner. Now that it can be solved via a proper Civic (rahter then a AI personality), this might become better.

*Early in the game there used to be some issues with species identification. But that is no longer the case now.

Edit: Here is the precise code for the Opinion Modifier of Fanatic Purifiers:

        modifier = {
            add = -1000
            has_ai_personality = fanatic_purifiers
            NOT = { is_same_species = FROM }
            NOT = { is_subspecies = FROM }           
        }

 

[Secret Master]

Have You ever seen Dalek trader?

They apparently like to shop at vintage clothing stores, so there's that.