Fanatic Purifiers should be able to do diplomacy with members of their own species

[Strager]

Fanatic purifiers are currently slated to prevent ALL diplomacy. Instead it should prevent diplomacy with Xeno empires. For example lets say the empire lets a vassal go, or a rebellion leads to another empire of the same primary species. This empire would be OK to talk to (even if they ARE traitors pigs, at least they are <Species>!")

 

[ashbery76]

Why? They want rid of external threats.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

Why? They want rid of external threats.

Would be better to say "submit or die" or "stay away from out glorious quest of purging the galaxy of filth".
I do think the limitation like that doesnt make much sense. This is not like talking with Xenos. Its like talking with "misguided".

 

[TerrBear]

Fanatic purifiers are currently slated to prevent ALL diplomacy. Instead it should prevent diplomacy with Xeno empires. For example lets say the empire lets a vassal go, or a rebellion leads to another empire of the same primary species. This empire would be OK to talk to (even if they ARE traitors pigs, at least they are <Species>!")

But if another race makes a vassal out of some of your planets with a differing ethos they'll hate you anyway as they won't approve of you being a fanatical purifier... so whats the point?

 

[DukeLeto42]

Even your own empire should be creeped out by your horrifying purging nature. That being said, your own species should overall respond better to you - xenophiles should hate you just as much (but we love our alien friends!), non-xeno-ethics would get a reduced malus compared to most empires (not a fan of this purge thing, but at least it isn't us), and xenophobes should be perfectly ok with it (yay, less xenos!).

Frankly, the nastier empires need some diplomatic options, even if it's just two fanatic purifiers making a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

But what if the other same-species empire is xenophobic non-purger? Why would you not talk with them? Why would they not talk with you? They would more likely think of you as "overzelous" more than "disgusting murderer".

 

[Strager]

Even your own empire should be creeped out by your horrifying purging nature.

Historcally, this hasn't been the case with us humans even as we self-purge..... maybe we should have an "apathetic" trait?

 

[Fourthspartan56]

Why? They want rid of external threats.

No, they want to purify the galaxy of alien taint. Logically since other polities of their species are not part of that aforementioned alien taint they should be willing to interact with them.

 

[DukeLeto42]

Historcally, this hasn't been the case with us humans even as we self-purge..... maybe we should have an "apathetic" trait?

It should still be a malus, just not as major a one. Historically, it may not be a cause for unending hatred and war, unless it's of your own people (as currently the malus forces), but perhaps you won't want to ally yourself with purging empires.

 

[Fourthspartan56]

It should still be a malus, just not as major a one. Historically, it may not be a cause for unending hatred and war, unless it's of your own people (as currently the malus forces), but perhaps you won't want to ally yourself with purging empires.

I'm fairly certain we already have a malus for having purging enabled and actively purging, I don't see why they wouldn't just carry that over.

 

[Secret Master]

My assumption is that if, for some reason, there are other polities that are controlled by your species, your fanatical purifier empire views them as irredeemably contaminated. You might be willing to conquer the POPs back and put them back under your benevolent rule, but there can be no negotiation with the impure. They must adhere to the imperial truth, or face the consequences.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

My assumption is that if, for some reason, there are other polities that are controlled by your species, your fanatical purifier empire views them as irredeemably contaminated. You might be willing to conquer the POPs back and put them back under your benevolent rule, but there can be no negotiation with the impure. They must adhere to the imperial truth, or face the consequences.

Thats sounds more like fanatic Authocrat thou - "submit or DIE!".
Remember that you can even have fellow same-species empire with fanatic purifier civic. And than your goals would be the same.

 

[ZomgK3tchup]

Why? They want rid of external threats.

They want to get rid of other species.

It's reasonable that two equally sized empires of the same species and same ideology could make an alliance of convenience until one sees fit to betray the other.

Also, the Fanatical Purifier description doesn't say anything about wanting to unify the galaxy under a single polity. It says that it wants to exterminate other species: one can imagine a scenario where a Fanatical Purifier would be satisfied with a galaxy that is "purified" of other species but divided politically amongst members of its own species.

 

[LastLeviathan]

We don't event know how limited diplomacy is. Maybe they've just removed the possibility of any types of deals, perhaps you can still trade, or perhaps you can't do anything. Who knows. One screenshot doesn't explain the feature completely.

 

[Avian Overlord]

Last time I checked ISIL didn't have many friends. That's the level of crazy Fanatical Purifiers are.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

Last time I checked ISIL didn't have many friends. That's the level of crazy Fanatical Purifiers are.

Exept they are not. They are typical spiritualist-autocrats with "doctrinal enforcers" mentality.

 

[Gamarasa]

Just wanted to throw out that only xeno pops are exterminated.
Nothing in that tooltip says that pops of your species that through whatever peculiar method escaped your grasp are exterminated as well.
I'd say those are more re-integrated. And an empire with a tendency to see anything they didn't create as inherently wrong does not seem to me like something that'd negotiate if they want, say, a system.
Also, with the new system of migration and acceptance and whatnot, any vassal you create that isn't of the purifier-sort itself would inevitably be contaminated with xenos, as well.

 

[Saviour of Galaxy]

Nothing in that tooltip says that pops of your species that through whatever peculiar method escaped your grasp are exterminated as well.

But it's not what this thread is about. Its about lack of ability to diplo-talk with a fellow empire made by the same species as yours, without antagonistic ethics. Lack of diplo-talk with alien-controled or multicultural "traitor" empires are not controversial here.

 

[Gamarasa]

But it's not what this thread is about. Its about lack of ability to diplo-talk with a fellow empire made by the same species as yours, without antagonistic ethics. Lack of diplo-talk with alien-controled or multicultural "traitor" empires are not controversial here.

If nothing in my post fits with the topic, I may indeed have missed the point. My apologies.

 

[Exarian]

Xenophobia isn't only possible background of fanatic purifier.
What are possible reasons for unlimited extermination policy?
Racism (xenophobia)? Yes, but also:

- Religion (Spiritual background) - You are purifying entire worlds of infidels, not intending to convert anyone (Heretics of Dune, Dune Chapterhouse - core classics of SciFi genre). Race doesn't matter
- Rulers will (authoritarian background) - Leader/Governament order destroying world or even entire race for pure power projection (Star Wars, LEXX, WH:40000)
- Expansion (materialism background) - Specific race is technologically superior and find other races as useless obstacles is their patch to power. They are removing such obstacles because of pragmatic reasons, and purification-on-sight is considered as most efficient procedure (Unicron, Borg and... Time Lords, before Galifrey Fall)

Thing I really hate is lack of imagination - especially when good examples are at hand.