Fanatic Purifiers impossible because of Federations

[mackau]

So i've played about 5 games today with fanatic purifiers. 600 star galaxy, 20 empires, no advanced starts, with FE's.

In all of them, I've managed to get a toehold (some bigger than others) before getting smashed by a giant federation made up of half the galaxy, who have at least five times more fleet size than I do.

In my other non-purifier games I've also ended up surrounded by hostile federations, it doesn't feel like empire vs empire, but empire vs federation, and the only way I can survive is if another group of enemies has teamed up but attacked the federation first.

 

[Caspoi]

I am currently running an observer game where an AI fanatical Purifier is dominating the galaxy and has even conquered a fallen empire, so it is definitively possible for them to manage their federation enemies. You should just be smart about it and exploit weaknesse while avoiding drawing too much attention to yourself.

 

[Alblaka]

Hilariously enough, I didnt see a single Federation in the entire game of my Pacfism Corporate Megablob gameplay. I kinda expected that Federations would be a much more common case, since Migratory Flocks could potentially unlock it very early on.

That said, maybe your Purifying and likely according rivaliries were key to this. Did you try NOT making rivals? It seems to be the key factor in enabling AI alliances (and therefore following federations).

Alternatively, you need to PURGE HARDER, because that will make all other empires Xenophobe, who will then refuse to establish Federations because Isolationism.

 

[Horror In The Deep]

So, right now Stellaris represent this realistically, and AI deals with It adequately.
trying to conquer and genocide everybody should be horrifically difficult.

Please, do not ask to change that. Stellaris should stay realistic at least at representing that people don`t want to get killed. Fanatic Purifiers already has enormously unlogical buff to fire rate just because they are EEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!1!!1111

 

[Caspoi]

So, right now Stellaris represent this realistically, and AI deals with It adequately.
trying to conquer and genocide everybody should be horrifically difficult.

Please, do not ask to change that. Stellaris should stay realistic at least at representing that people don`t want to get killed. Fanatic Purifiers already has enormously unlogical buff to fire rate just because they are EEEEEEEEEEVIL!!!1!!1111

Yes, I have played as a genocidal hive mind, which is not quite the same but close enough for approximation and I was quite supprised at how easy it was, the only federation I saw only managed to get two members and any attempts of agression towards me has at most had three contributers to the war, I have come to dominate half the galaxy while only the unbidden and awakened empires had made any serious attempts at beating me so at this point I have just thrown caution to the wind and declared war on the rest of the galaxy.

 

[krios41]

The big red blob am I.
The big purple blob (leage of Cormassa) is in a defensive pact with me
THe big pink blob is in a defensive pact with me.
The Big Orange blob is in a federation with teh medium purple blob (Kel-Azaan Republic) and the tiny red blob (the Hiffnar Regime, wich was a big red blob before i smashed it)
The medium blue-ish blob is in a defensive pact with my allies (but not me)

This has been the political scenario from teh beginning of the game, literaly.

So here is a tip that /might/ help. Enable advanced AI and try to get a defensive pact with them. It is what saved me from being obliterated early on.

 

[The_Red_Star]

Surprisingly, being a collection of ultra aggressive psychopaths bent on becoming the only sapient species in the galaxy makes you disliked. Who knew?

 

[mackau]

Yes, I have played as a genocidal hive mind, which is not quite the same but close enough for approximation.

I have wanted to give hive mind a go, I might play as one instead of specific purifiers.

That said, maybe your Purifying and likely according rivaliries were key to this. Did you try NOT making rivals? It seems to be the key factor in enabling AI alliances (and therefore following federations).

I hadn't rivalled any of the empires in the federation, as I was concentrating on taking out 2 of my direct neighbours who had formed a defensive pact with each other (the 3rd joined the massive federation).

Surprisingly, being a collection of ultra aggressive psychopaths bent on becoming the only sapient species in the galaxy makes you disliked. Who knew?

Hah yes of course. I think these giant federations are a bit offputting, like very early into the game, where most empires haven't even reached the stage of butting up against other empires, and over half a dozen have already decided to become a single federation?

 

[Horror In The Deep]

Yes, I have played as a genocidal hive mind, which is not quite the same but close enough for approximation and I was quite supprised at how easy it was, the only federation I saw only managed to get two members and any attempts of agression towards me has at most had three contributers to the war, I have come to dominate half the galaxy while only the unbidden and awakened empires had made any serious attempts at beating me so at this point I have just thrown caution to the wind and declared war on the rest of the galaxy.

Now this sounds sad.
What was the map size and number of civilisations in your game?

Right now It seems that you and mackau have entirely different experience on this topic...Which can be good, because it means situations don`t repeat every time.
Nevertheless, I guess I should see personally what`s going one, and finally try my Mad Enth Fanatic Purifiers, who want to destroy all the sentient life because it is a threat to mother Nature...

 

[grommile]

So here is a tip that /might/ help. Enable advanced AI and try to get a defensive pact with them. It is what saved me from being obliterated early on.

The OP wants to play Fanatic Purifiers.

Fanatic Purifiers cannot sign defensive pacts.

 

[Caspoi]

Now this sounds sad.
What was the map size and number of civilisations in your game?

Right now It seems that you and mackau have entirely different experience on this topic...Which can be good, because it means situations don`t repeat every time.
Nevertheless, I guess I should see personally what`s going one, and finally try my Mad Enth Fanatic Purifiers, who want to destroy all the sentient life because it is a threat to mother Nature...

19 normal empires, 10 of which had advanced AI start and 3 fallen empires in a 1000 stars galaxy with habitable worlds set to 75 %. Difficulty level was hard.

 

[Cookiematico]

Its actually quite easy doable if you are very aggressive. Put star ports at every colony and have a flexible force flying around, make note of where they will attack and use stations to snare them towards the port. I barely had mining and science stations at the start to prevent the funneling. If you do that at the beginning you can purge at least 4 species at a very quick note. Do declare war on them though, do not let them advance beyond cruiser level. Once that is done, its just a matter of snowballing.

Only downside is that the annihilation bombardment is useless and the unity hit.

Here is the screen after destroying the unbidden, purging the fallen empires and destroying the two federated star empires 's army. its just a matter of mopping up now.

Tip: tech requirement and unity becomes massive, so purge helps you with that. For tech, wait for exploring the systems until you have adopted the science tree with the Planetary Survey Corps. That way, the science will snowball immensely at late tech

 

[Kvinfojoj]

It's tricky playing as Fanatic Purifiers, especially with aggression set to High, ironically almost all your wars will be defensive. One tip is to be very careful with who you rival - if you rival two factions then they are far more likely to team up since they have the "Common Rival"-attitude bonus towards each other. You will be swimming in influence anyway, don't rival more than one faction IMO.

 

[Es57]

Interestingly enough, I am in the opposite situation as the OP in my current Utopia game as the Galactic Hansa (Fanatic Materialist, Egalitarian Megacorporation).

My first contact was actually a pretty strong Fanatic Purifier, which remained my only known xeno empire for quite some time (clustered start off).

It was frightening, so I immediately engaged in an arms race against them so that they don't DOW me (fortunately I was litteraly swimming in energy credits due to my civics and traditions).

Then I met other empires which were very friendly, and formed federations with them.

Now it's basically that Fanatic Purifier Empire vs the rest of the galaxy, and they are now constantly bullied by all the federations around them (including me).
Everyone seems to enjoy playing with them in a sadistic way like a cat with a half-dead mouse, taking small bits of territory and sharing it between them.

The Fanatic Purifier Empire is now the punching-ball of the galaxy and has completely failed at purifiying anything, to the point that it's ridiculous (I think the only war they ever won was against a former-primitive OPM that was unlucky enough to reach FTL near their borders at the beginning of the game).

So yeah, I think there is a problem with the Fanatic Purifiers, at the moment...

 

[krios41]

The OP wants to play Fanatic Purifiers.

Fanatic Purifiers cannot sign defensive pacts.

yea, but he was seemingly also having trouble on non FP runs

 

[Mathrafalovich]

It's tricky playing as Fanatic Purifiers, especially with aggression set to High, ironically almost all your wars will be defensive.

#FanaticalPurifiersDidNothingWrong

 

[Dsingis]

It's definitely possible. I had the same settings as you, 600 star, 20 empires no advanced, 4 FE's.
Everything as normal, difficulty, aggressiveness, number of habitable planet.

Okay, I set the FTL type to Hyperlanes only, because that's how I like to play the most.

It's not easy, that's for sure, but it's possible. I once got declared on by THREE different federations, but due to chokepoints, sick micro and focusing on occupying enemies, instead of hunting down fleets I never even lost a single war. White peace was the lowest I got.

What I did was, instead of conquering every planet I saw, I vassalized everyone around me, once I grew to a reasonable size. That way, I always had some kind of "allies".
Integrating them asap, settling one of my POPs on every planet and start consuming them.
Once I owned half of the galaxy, I just straight up conquered planets instead of vassalizing them.

That's how I conquered and cleaned the galaxy.

Don't mind the 0 ships. After I conquered the last empire I deleted my fleet, to reduce the end game lag, as I wanted to see every species wiped out. But since it would just have been a waiting game, I just ended it there.

 

[The Founder]

That said, maybe your Purifying and likely according rivaliries were key to this. Did you try NOT making rivals? It seems to be the key factor in enabling AI alliances (and therefore following federations).

This is a rather important part of Rivalries: They will force your enemies to work together, even if their Ethics would normally prevent that. More Rivalries might be the worst bonus in the game.
Same with shared threat.

Alternatively, you need to PURGE HARDER, because that will make all other empires Xenophobe, who will then refuse to establish Federations because Isolationism.

Understanding how the Xenophobe Atraction works is rather important in this case - both for yourself and your enemies. You propably have to replace the use of Repugnant Xeno Slaves with the Diplomacy modifier.
Maybe even intentionally hand off a planet of yours to Xenophobes/Slavers by "loosing" a war.

Defeating Empires too quickly can be a bigger issue then taking your time. Same with purging too quickly.
Try to take out Xenophiles first, Xenophobes last.
Avoid the spreading of communication early on. All it realy does is increase who hears of your purging.

What I did was, instead of conquering every planet I saw, I vassalized everyone around me, once I grew to a reasonable size.
That way, I always had some kind of "allies".
Integrating them asap, settling one of my POPs on every planet and start consuming them.

I am pretty sure you should not be able to Vassalie empires in War either. However there is the option to just start with Fanatic Xenophobe/Militarist and opt into Fanatical Purifier later, when you are already estalished or just need the boost.

It is a civic. It can be changed as often as nessesary.

 

[Dsingis]

I am pretty sure you should not be able to Vassalie empires in War either. However there is the option to just start with Fanatic Xenophobe/Militarist and opt into Fanatical Purifier later.

It is possible to vassalize empires as Fanatic Purifiers, as I played it myself.

 

[The Founder]

It is possible to vassalize empires as Fanatic Purifiers, as I played it myself.

If you can not do it via Diplomacy, you propably should not be able to do it via War either. So likely a bug/oversight that will be fixed.