Fanatic ethics in Banks… More worthless than ever ?

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Gyrvendal

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Fanatic ethics in Stellaris have never been on par balance-wise with having an additional « normal » ethic. With the removal of pop « ethic modifiers » in Banks and the fact that pops can only ever have a single fanatic ethic, I feel like fanatic ethics have been literally removed from the game…

Going fanatic in one ethic adds nothing significant to your empire that you can’t already get from the base variant. I know that fanatics get a special planetary edict which is useless 99% of the time but do they get any advantage at all beside that ?
 

Alblaka

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Nope, that is not true.

First of all, you still get a doubled bonus from Fanatic Ethic over normal ones. Since many of these bonus are -% reductions to certain aspects, they increase immensely in value.
I.e. going from Neutral to Authoritarian reduces all Resettlement Costs by 25% (or more, if you already have other boni, i.e. from Nomadic, since those stack additively). Moving from Authoritarian to Fan Authoritarian, at first glance, only adds another 25% reduction, but in gameplay this means a 33% difference (from 75 to 50 of the original value).
Similarily, stacking Fanatic Materialist with Machinist and Synthethic Ascension makes for ludicrously low energy maintenance per Synth Pop.

Additionally, there's the special planetary edicts unique to Fanatic Ethics. Albeit some of them are still of questionable use, especially with the overflowing Influence early on (due to Faction Management), most still provide substantial edges. I.e. Fan Spiritualists +15% growth, or Fan Xenophobes +20% Unity.

Furthermore, having only 2 primary ethics makes it easier to manage Factions, because innately you will only have to deal with 2 large Factions (and you can effectively affirm which faction will spawn first). Of course that will splinter off in the later stages of the game, but it's still an edge that Fanatic Ethic starts have over 3-ethic starts.

Lastly, the biggest (my subjective oppinion) advantage of going 3-ethic, namely the access to unique powerful buildings and technologies, was completely removed. Ethics now only increase the weight of the techs (i.e. the Map the Stars Materialist one), but are not mandatory requirements anymore.


Thus, I think saying that Fanatic Ethics have absolutely no place in Stellaris is simply not true.
Of course, whether they are, in specific situations stronger or not, is an entirely different question, and I will not try to claim that there aren't some Fan Ethics that don't seem to justify their costs.
 

nrader

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You have a point, but that's mostly due to ethic bonuses rework - ethics that were good in 1.4 and relied on empire-wide bonuses are good as before(look at Militarism, Xenophoby) while the ones relied on pop bonuses not always get proper replacement.
Note that some of ethics are worthless in both fanatical and basic form - like Xenophile and Spiritualism(since growth bonus was removed) and Egalitarian(unless you want +10% civic, it's quite useless now)
So there is not that much ethics that suffer issue - probably only Authoritarian and Pacifism; maybe Materialism, since for picking robots you dont need to be fanatic.
 

Gyrvendal

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Fanatic Ethics also make hitting 100% Happiness across your empire easier.

Why would that be? I am not sure how fanatic ethics really work with factions but in my (limited) experience, unless you stack huge amounts of ethic convergence , then every faction from every ethic will always end up forming by the mid game and have plenty of adherents. At least if you have 3 ethics as a starter that means that your government convergence will automatically suppress 3 other ethics, potentially reducing the number of hostile factions to deal with.
 

razaron

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Why would that be? I am not sure how fanatic ethics really work with factions but in my (limited) experience, unless you stack huge amounts of ethic convergence , then every faction from every ethic will always end up forming by the mid game and have plenty of adherents. At least if you have 3 ethics as a starter that means that your government convergence will automatically suppress 3 other ethics, potentially reducing the number of hostile factions to deal with.
Fanatic Ethics start of with ~70% convergence. So a Faction that forms for that Ethic will include more people, making it easier to focus on their goals over the goals of other Factions.

Of course, that's the theory. Currently factions are unbalanced and some are easier to support than others.
Play Fanatic Matarialists and enjoy your >85% materialist convergence and guaranteed 100% happiness.
 

Aries666

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Fanatic Ethics start of with ~70% convergence. So a Faction that forms for that Ethic will include more people, making it easier to focus on their goals over the goals of other Factions.

Of course, that's the theory. Currently factions are unbalanced and some are easier to support than others.
Play Fanatic Matarialists and enjoy your >85% materialist convergence and guaranteed 100% happiness.
Add to this that a very happy faction also provides influence and happy pops produce more and I think a fanatic choice is almost always a good one. Unless you have some form of RP in mind like spiritualist/xenophobe/authoritarian.
 

Promethian

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Why would that be? I am not sure how fanatic ethics really work with factions but in my (limited) experience, unless you stack huge amounts of ethic convergence , then every faction from every ethic will always end up forming by the mid game and have plenty of adherents. At least if you have 3 ethics as a starter that means that your government convergence will automatically suppress 3 other ethics, potentially reducing the number of hostile factions to deal with.

Yes, every faction will end up forming unless you do some kind of super specialized build that makes sure you never conquer someone or anything like that. Yes, they never go away. However they can be reduced in size (minimum 5) and that is done by tanking the attraction to their ethic. If you have 100 pops in your empire and a faction only has 5 of them their influence is tiny.

As for
At least if you have 3 ethics as a starter that means that your government convergence will automatically suppress 3 other ethics
you are incorrect. Every ethic suppresses every other. There is only 100% attraction to go around. Here is a simple example to demonstrate (made up numbers are made up for the purpose of demonstration) If a pop has 100% egalitarian attraction and a charismatic xeno moves next door. That pop suddenly has 50% egalitarian and 50% xenophile attraction.