Family Crests

[Karzan]

Given the sheer amount of dynasties in this mod and the fact that the Elder Scrolls is not a book series written by an author who is fascinated by insignificant minutiae like the banners of every noble family in the land (cough GRR Martin Cough), I understand why many of the crests are generic or randomized. There are some which are specifically chosen and make sense, like Dor and Olo, but I have found that many of the Skyrim dynasties don't appear to make much sense, and when playing as Orgnum was surprised that my banner was a rather boring, French-seeming crest rather than the Satakal Serpent of Pyandonea.

Now, I assume that the creation of crests (using assets already in CK2) is fairly easy, so I was wondering why you haven't recruited the many helpful folks on this forum to generate crests. In addition, while I do not know how easy it is to import crests from scratch, I think there would be many people willing to help. If you have already begun work on differentiating crests, that's fine, but the last straw for me was seeing the Hassildor dynasty, of Skingrad Vampire Count fame, with a crest that consisted of a pink Skull and Cross Bones on a White field.

On a side note, it appears that for many of the Nordic Jarls, you've given family names based on random, Skyrim denizens without thought for location (other than Flamehair). I would suggest this be changed. After all, the Snow-Shods live in Riften.

Based on version 1.5, I've come up with a few families I think are severely lacking and suggested crests:

Hassildor -- Currently the Pink Pirate Crest mentioned above. If you're not going to give him Skingrad's banner (which fits his vampiric nature), I would suggest something based off the Count Outfit of Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion:
Emblem: Golden lilies or flowers
Field: Red or Burgundy.

Snow-Shod -- Currently a field of blue and grey checkers.
Emblem: A white foot or shoe (they're Snow-Shod, after all)
Field: Grey or Light Blue

Black-Briar -- Currently a split crest with a yellow bear's arm on a green field on one side and a green bear's arm on a yellow field on the other. It doesn't match the name. While I understand crests need not match names, given Nordic naming conventions, it would make sense.
Emblem: Golden thorny bush OR three bee hives (for the meadery)
Field: Green or Blue (for the Riften lake)

Stuhn -- I would assume you took this from Dengeir of Stuhn in Falkreath. Stuhn is the Nordic name for Stendarr, and to quote the UESP, was Shield-Thane to Shor and taught the Nords about taking prisoners of war from the Aldmer. Currently, the Stuhn crest is the triskelion of bent legs you might recognize from the Sicilian flag. Doesn't fit in Skyrim, if I do say so.
Emblem: A silver hammer (for Stendarr) or a shield
Field: Red

Staghorn -- Currently a black shield on a white field.
Emblem: This one seems easy -- a brown or black stag (or failing that, antlers)
Field: White

God-Hater -- Personally, I'd suggest scrapping this name. It's taken from a Nordic NPC in Skingrad from Oblivion, weirdly enough, without any connection to Whiterun. Come up with a name for Olaf One-Eye's dynasty (even if it's something silly like "Cyclopean"). Currently, its emblem is bisected horizontally with a Tudor Rose on a Blue Field on the top half and a simple, red field on the bottom.
Emblem: A White Horse or a White Skull (the horse being for Whiterun). Or, if you want to keep the triskelion, use the celtic, swirled style you see on Steel Plate Armor.
Field: Yellow

Volkihar -- Currently a red bridge on a white field. The Volkihar are famous vampires. The family ought to start as vampires, one would think
Emblem: Red skull
Field: Black

Sour-Heart -- Currently three, green tudor roses on a yellow field.
Emblem: Green heart
Field: Red or Yellow

Stone-Fist -- Currently a golden eagle on a brown field
Emblem: Grey fist or gauntlet
Field Black

Cursebraid -- Currently checkered black and white
Emblem: You've made them the Jarls of Solitude, so why not a White Wolf?
Field: Red

Amber-Shield -- Currently a white cross on a green field.
Emblem: Orange or Gold shield
Field: Red or Black

Star-Sung -- Currently a grey triangle on a white field
Emblem: A silver star or stars
Field Dark Blue

Larich -- Currently a white triskelion on red field. Given that the triskelion is a religious symbol and Rislav rebelled against the religious order of his time...
Emblem: A white eagle (Rislav's statue includes him holding a falcon)
Field: Red

Camoran -- Currently light blue lions on a red field. Lions, while wild, have been co-opted by humanity in the middle ages and don't seem evocative of the Bosmeri Wild Hunt
Emblem: Something wild -- perhaps a golden stag, like the Falinesti flag
Field: Green

Arana -- Currently a beige bear paw on a red field. Not exactly evocative of a glorious, Alinor king
Emblem: Gold Crown or Eagle
Field: Royal Purple

Vitellius -- Currently a green skull and cross bones on a yellow field
Emblem/Field: Anything else, hopefully something simple like the Purple Chevrons on White field you gave the Umbranoxes

Cruel-Sea -- Another random family. They're connected to Windhelm in-game, yet made Jarls of Winterhold, despite us having a Jarl of Winterhold with a Lastname in Lore. (Granted, he is from the third era). Currently a silver Fleur de Lis on a black field.
Emblem/Field: In this case, anything with blue, green, or grey -- a design to suggest the ocean

Flame-Hair -- Currently a Black Heart on a White Field. Does not exactly strike fear or relate to Flaming Hair
Emblem/Field: Anything red or orange -- a design to suggest the famous, family mane.


Well, that's just a few families.

 

[Karzan]

Oh, and if work like this is already being done, please let me know.

 

[Illanair]

so I was wondering why you haven't recruited the many helpful folks on this forum to generate crests.

It's not like we're prohibiting anyone from doing anything like that - People are more than welcome to add coats to the game. In particular the ones we're completely missing.

 

[Karzan]

1. How might one help with that?

2. How do I tell if the game is randomizing a coat or if you have chosen to add a coat?

 

[Karzan]

Made some mock-ups in the Character Builder

Hassildor:

Camoran: or

Flame-Hair:

Snow-Shod:

Black-Briar:

Staghorn: or

Cruel-Sea: or

Amber-Shield:

Stuhn:

Larich:

Volkihar:

Sour-Heart:

Vitellius:

Stonefist:

Star-Sung:

Arana: or

God-Hater:

Cursebraid:

 

[jmberry]

2. How do I tell if the game is randomizing a coat or if you have chosen to add a coat?

The Dynasties file would show it as such, like so:

### = {
name="####"
culture = ####
coat_of_arms = {
template = 0
layer = {
texture = #
texture_internal = ##
emblem = #
color = #
color = #
color = #
}
}
used_for_random = no
}

For the record, only the following dynasties have set COAs (At least in the version I have):

1. Septim
2. Dor
3. Bracques
4. Gardner
5. Ysciele
6. Cumberland
7. Tharn
8. Woodborne
9. Percy
10. Mede
11. Tor
12. Olo
13. Cuptor
14. Stormcloak

EDIT: I should also point out that, at least in the version I have, Olaf One-Eye belongs to the Yngvlar dynasty

 

[Karzan]

The Dynasties file would show it as such, like so:


For the record, only the following dynasties have set COAs (At least in the version I have):

1. Septim
2. Dor
3. Bracques
4. Gardner
5. Ysciele
6. Cumberland
7. Tharn
8. Woodborne
9. Percy
10. Mede
11. Tor
12. Olo
13. Cuptor
14. Stormcloak

EDIT: I should also point out that, at least in the version I have, Olaf One-Eye belongs to the Yngvlar dynasty

Olaf One-Eye is in the game? I didn't see him. Also, I have a bone to pick with whoever did the Mede dynasty. The Black Wolf is their sigil, but in-game the Medes appear to have a White beast (one would assume a wolf).

 

[jmberry]

Olaf One-Eye is in the game? I didn't see him. Also, I have a bone to pick with whoever did the Mede dynasty. The Black Wolf is their sigil, but in-game the Medes appear to have a White beast (one would assume a wolf).

If your version of the mod is anything like mine's, he should be in the Older Empires character file with the ID 1000084

 

[Illanair]

1. How might one help with that?

2. How do I tell if the game is randomizing a coat or if you have chosen to add a coat?

1. You're going to need an image editing program that can handle .TGA exporting (24bit compressed to be exact), or save your flags as .bmp and have someone else convert them for you.

Korba has made a master file of such that contains a lot of the ingame flag artwork that you can mix and match - not sure if he's made it public or not though.

 

[MechTheDane]

Made some mock-ups in the Character Builder

Spoiler

Hassildor: View attachment 111731

Camoran: View attachment 111732 or View attachment 111733

Flame-Hair: View attachment 111734

Snow-Shod: View attachment 111735

Black-Briar: View attachment 111736

Staghorn: View attachment 111737 or View attachment 111738

Cruel-Sea: View attachment 111739 or View attachment 111740

Amber-Shield: View attachment 111741

Stuhn: View attachment 111742

Larich: View attachment 111743

Volkihar: View attachment 111744

Sour-Heart: View attachment 111745

Vitellius: View attachment 111746

Stonefist: View attachment 111747

Star-Sung: View attachment 111748

Arana: View attachment 111749 or View attachment 111750

God-Hater: View attachment 111751

Cursebraid: View attachment 111752

I like the cut of your jib.

 

[Korbah]

If you edit the files with the info from jmberry, I can integrate them into the main mod build.

 

[Karzan]

If you edit the files with the info from jmberry, I can integrate them into the main mod build.

I'm afraid I'm not much of a modder and don't know how to edit those files, or what I would do to edit them. Not even sure on the first step.

 

[Orinsul]

Once all the provinces and duchies and kingdoms have flags, it would be a small thing to give those flags to relevant families too.
Rushing to make new crests would risk doubling the workload.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I like the cut of your jib.

I concur. Those are all really good.

 

[Karzan]

Once all the provinces and duchies and kingdoms have flags, it would be a small thing to give those flags to relevant families too.
Rushing to make new crests would risk doubling the workload.

Again, I'm not an experienced modder -- but these were all in the Character Builder. No custom-flags are needed (though I might suggest some for families like Stonefist or Sour-Heart that don't have good options in the Character-Builder; however, these mock-ups I've made should be suitable until such a time).

In addition, I think the Arana flag should probably be changed to the Gold on Dark Green of the Aldmeri Dominion, now that I think about it.

And to Mr. Capiatlist: thank you very much. I only wish I knew how to put them in a file that could be used in the game, or that someone else could do it.

 

[Orinsul]

Just guessing, in the save file there's a wee string of numbers to identify the flag.
Does that translate into the values in the dynasty file?

Maybe just posting the save file's listing would be enough for them as having the knowing to go about it.

For using flags though, you just copy and paste the flag into the CoA file, then copy and paste the dynasty entry for the last one in the list to the dynasty of the new flag, and +1 the value.

 

[Karzan]

Just guessing, in the save file there's a wee string of numbers to identify the flag.
Does that translate into the values in the dynasty file?

Maybe just posting the save file's listing would be enough for them as having the knowing to go about it.

For using flags though, you just copy and paste the flag into the CoA file, then copy and paste the dynasty entry for the last one in the list to the dynasty of the new flag, and +1 the value.

I'm sorry, but that's Greek to me. You'll have to break it down like I'm a toddler.

 

[Orinsul]

If you're keen this might help
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?591229-TUTORIAL-How-to-Add-Custom-Coats-of-Arms

For the other bit, either cutting and pasting your screenshots or going into the save file, control+f'ing your way to the Dynasty ID to find the bit that looks like

			coat_of_arms=
			{
				data=
				{
0 0 0 3 13 2 16 				}
				religion="eight_divines"
			}
		}

would get the combination code for the CoA you've made.

 

[Karzan]

If you're keen this might help
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?591229-TUTORIAL-How-to-Add-Custom-Coats-of-Arms

For the other bit, either cutting and pasting your screenshots or going into the save file, control+f'ing your way to the Dynasty ID to find the bit that looks like

			coat_of_arms=
			{
				data=
				{
0 0 0 3 13 2 16 				}
				religion="eight_divines"
			}
		}

would get the combination code for the CoA you've made.

Okay. I'll try my hand at this. I didnt -create- any CoAs, though. All i did was pick out the design in the Ruler Designer and use the Windows Snipping Tool to grab the picture.

Update: Windows told me I do not have the necessary program to open CK2 files.

 

[Orinsul]

paint.net is the one I use. Lord knows if it's any good or not compared to others, but it's free and more of less straight forward.