Fallschirmjäger lost in Siberia!

[Commander666]

I am very happy you still on line. But, Pang, the point here is that I don't know what to do. The army traveling on the green line is not losing any oil. Of course, when they go next province further into Mongolia (and all surrounding provinces are also only 20% infra) that will change quickly.

But that is not relevant to our discussion. Regardless if your chain of high IC provinces along the northern route and turn south at Tomosk to head over Mongolia, or my branch off from that route done back at Rostov just east of the Ukraine and going thru low infra Elton - either of our routes face the same horrible conditions in southern Mongolia. So, Mongolia is not the point.

The point is - if the right way is your "chain of high IC provinces" which is best found in the northern route - then I should redeploy my GAR from my more southern route to get your "chain" green. I would be doing this to improve what is possible with your route; or get the maximum value by eliminating revolt risk.

But the true problem I am having is, "How can I possibly improve on MOTs travelling a month now and their oil is fully topped up?"

On the flip side, while my army is not really huge, it is substantial enough to give great doubt to the belief that 35% infra Elton could possibly be passing that.

I really am like a man lost at sea clutching a sinking rubber raft but seeing land that I don't know if I can swim that far to get there. And the real problem is I don't have the full info to make the best decision.

So, can we please back track, and discuss only supplies? Do supplies actually move across the map? I was always of the impression that supplies did move frrom capital to units because we see supplies everywhere in the depots and in the unit reserves. But I realize that this game display may be totally different from anything to do with how supplies get to the units. Basically, I understand you to say that there are no supplies moving across the map. Supply to units is mathematically abstracted based on the ESE that can reach them. Is that all correct?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Yes. The are directly beamed from depot to unit stockpile.

 

[Commander666]

So, no supplies actually move across the land from capital to units. That's what I thought.

Unfortunately, this now presents two paradoxes:

1) Obviously the Northern Russia "chain of high ESE provinces" is the better route, but as there are at least a dozen provinces along that chain - all having no suppression - it is inconcievable that my MOTs can be travelling for over a month while maintaing their gas tanks at 99.9% full IF THEY WERE BEING SUPPLIED FROM THAT DIRECTION. Clearly, the maximum Revolt Risk currently on that route does not calculate into explaining the nearly 100% daily refueling occurring while the army is travelling towards Mongolia. Also, the fact that there is only a

 

[Commander666]

So, no supplies actually move across the land from capital to units. That's what I thought.

Unfortunately, this now presents two paradoxes:

1) Obviously the Northern Russia "chain of high ESE provinces" is the better route, but as there are at least a dozen provinces along that chain - all having no suppression at this time - it is inconceivable that my MOTs can be travelling for over a month while maintaining their gas tanks at 99.9% full IF THEY WERE BEING SUPPLIED FROM THAT DIRECTION. Clearly, the maximum Revolt Risk currently on that route does not calculate into explaining the nearly 100% daily refueling occurring while the army is travelling towards Mongolia.

2) That leads me to the conclusion that supply is being calculated via the “Elton Route” which is fully green as regards nil partisans. Further, as both routes terminate with only 60% infra at Bijsk next to Mongolia, I'm definite the Northern Route does not matter for this attack on China. But this fact presents a further problem. Elton only has 35% infra and – as per your “chain of ESE provinces” I need to assume that Elton is not being considered in the supply mathematics, and instead the three 60% infra provinces skirting Elton are. However, those 3 provinces have 19%, 23% and 20% Revolt Risk – which I consider must be a significant impediment as regards still better ESE possible for the moving army.

But the fact that nearly maximum daily refueling is happening to the moving army of 61 mobile divisions makes that seem a bit of miracle. The only guide I have to base my decision on is the TC overload which, on November 8/42, is 1333/1049 – but that includes 2 GAR in deployment.

I confirm that increasing Infra in Elton does help, especially if your Gar are optimized to meet that.

I now would disagree with the above. As Elton is only 35% infra (but green because of GAR) the supply trace as per ESE calculations cannot be happening that way. It must be happening via the three 60% infra provinces skirting Elton. Therefore I feel that other GAR should immediately be deployed to those 3 high Revolt Risk provinces that must be creating a negative effect – even if the moving army is seemingly indicating that there is very little negative effect anywhere - as regards supplies and oil getting to the units. However, I can only imagine there might occur a very significant TC load reduction if the proper 60% infra provinces get their Revolt Risk eliminated instead of relying on a 35% infra "green Elton".

Elton’s infrastructure can continue growing, and when at 60%, the Elton way can be used instead only to permit disbanding two extra GAR that will not be needed once Elton has a GAR returned there. Of course, by then the Chinese will hopefully be crushed anyway, thereby questioning the possible waste by continuing Elton infra structure because once China is annexed, all Wehrmacht are out of there via SR. So then the whole green line of GARs currently comprising the “Route to Mongolia” can be disbanded thereby returning this Germany to a decent MP stockpile.

But I can’t decide: Leave it as is with Elton currently at 35% infra (and building) or just quickly shift the line so the 3 higher infra provinces skirting Elton get green. So, why do you state the above? As per “chain of high ESE provinces” we know that a better route exists if it were made green. Where is any benefit in improving Elton’s infra other than eventually it can be used instead?

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Because it is not simply used instead but additionaly. ESE flows on every route and the routes are "added" to each other. The more alternatives the better. And there is the pumping effect. So i conclude that changing anything will give no significant advantage. You should ignore fuel stockpiles. Whether oil stockpile is at 5% or 100% makes no difference. There are only the two cases that a unit has oil or has no oil. Supplies work different. If supply stockpile is below 100% the unit will suffer severe penalties:

However, in spite of all this continuous travelling the MOT's oil is at 360.8 of 361.2 possible and their supplies at 242.7 of 361.8 possible.

242.7/361.8 = 0.6708 -> 16.46% penalty on offensive and defence. This is the penalty at the start of the battle. In battle supply consumption is high, therefore stockpile will decrease and penalty will increase.

 

[Commander666]

Because it is not simply used instead but additionaly. ESE flows on every route and the routes are "added" to each other. The more alternatives the better.

Thanks for all the explanations. Well, we can't be garrisoning ALL of Russia, so the ESE will just have to survive with only one route garrisoned. And, if your "chain of high ESE" is to be followed, there should certainly be a positive effect if not missing revolt suppression in 3 of the higher infra links.

You should ignore fuel stockpiles.

Hmm? Whose side are you on? Every time I have ignored it my ships got stuck in the sea zone they were in, and my Wehrmacht looked terrible!

242.7/361.8 = 0.6708 -> 16.46%

Ouch!


Anyway, thanks again. Was some very good info. Basically think all analogies to water are too wishy-washy; and your "chain of high ESE provinces" seems best description... the right way to go.

But now is time to have some real fun… and let my Wehrmacht guarantee that Japan's enemy will never be enjoying another Chinese New Year!

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Hmm? Whose side are you on?

I am on the site of truth. Finding the truth however is a rather complicated process.

Every time I have ignored it my ships got stuck in the sea zone they were in, and my Wehrmacht looked terrible!

Ships are a different issue. As long as oil in the supply depot(mostly capital) does suffice you donnot have to worry about fuel for army and air force. They will lose supply faster than they lose fuel.

Basically think all analogies to water are too wishy-washy;

They are. Actually i hate pretty much all analogies for that reason.

But now is time to have some real fun… and let my Wehrmacht guarantee that Japan's enemy will never be enjoying another Chinese New Year!

Have fun!

 

[Titan79]

How absolutely fantastic! Titan was right and really glad you did such a good job of presenting that. WOW! Paras suddenly take on a whole new roll!. It is time to priortize very long range TRA!

Glad you eventually sorted it out, Commander .