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Slaughter

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@NikephorosSonar
Meh? Meh?!

"Messenger, take that man to the methane plant; three weeks punishment detail. Yes, the power plant that runs on sh..." :)


@Slaughter
That's awesome mate!

"Please step forward. On behalf of the Brotherhood of Modding Steel, I hereby promote you to Paladin rank, Junior grade. The eye searing magenta pixel foes of the Brotherhood shall never prevail for we face them with unending courage and determination."


SALUTE!

Paladin General Sword

Thank you, General!

rn-demis-roussos.jpg


The eye-seering enemies of the Brotherhood shall never prevail because we have NO FEAR and our eyes are already ruined anyways! Prosthetics for everyone!

I think I will try another sprite in the weekend. If I remember right the same CivIII mod also had a nifty Combat Armor sprite. Gonna comb for it when I have the time and the net.

This weekend I ran into a problem:

Did someone here already find out that the 1.03 combat models REVERSES the value of Defense stats? I found that out while researching modding resources. So having higher defensive stats is bad and lower is good?

Oh yeah that means unit balance was just thrown out of wack.
I tried to fix it, but my methods were raw and imprecise until yesterday.

So, first, I decided to build the statistics of every unit:

https://mega.co.nz/#!EB0EkIYa!R34znDaj0yKCgXXcau2UGBXiPMgU_Tf-sFtDcAoa6U4

I've been looking at some stuff, and here's some conclusions:

Air Defence seems like its gonna be a Base 36 system, where 36 is maximum Air Vulnerability and 0 is the best Vulnerability.

Land Vulnerabilities (Defensive and Offensive) will have to be AT LEAST 80 without changing attachments and tech's effects, to account for Attachments + techs like implants.

Can unit stats go into negative numbers
 

messenger

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Did someone here already find out that the 1.03 combat models REVERSES the value of Defense stats? I found that out while researching modding resources. So having higher defensive stats is bad and lower is good?

Oh yeah that means unit balance was just thrown out of wack.
I tried to fix it, but my methods were raw and imprecise until yesterday.

So, first, I decided to build the statistics of every unit:

https://mega.co.nz/#!EB0EkIYa!R34znDaj0yKCgXXcau2UGBXiPMgU_Tf-sFtDcAoa6U4

I've been looking at some stuff, and here's some conclusions:

Air Defence seems like its gonna be a Base 36 system, where 36 is maximum Air Vulnerability and 0 is the best Vulnerability.

Land Vulnerabilities (Defensive and Offensive) will have to be AT LEAST 80 without changing attachments and tech's effects, to account for Attachments + techs like implants.

Can unit stats go into negative numbers
I believe we had that very discussion a couple of pages back!
I think the maximum number should probably be 90 and the minimum should be 10 or so. We want there to be some dramatic differences between unprepared militia and a mechanised infantry unit in combat. Either way, all the techs and stuff have to be made to be -n rather than +n but hopefully that won't be too hard.
How did you work out the air defence maximum of 36?
I think you can go into the negatives, after all, some Brigades take stats off but I guess the only way to find out would be to test it. The main issue there is what the hell does a negative number do gamewise? Maybe it is like dividing by zero...
 

Slaughter

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@vota dc
Yes indeed.

@ Slaughter
Yep. My plan is to address it in next release after this one, but by all means examine it. It's an optional setting.

Cheers,
Sword

Already examined and changed, take a peek at this file and ignore the previous ones:

https://mega.co.nz/#!8ZcWFAiD!TtyTwkqAttoE4g4FplEDh0cH0Ft9amUwP2j9SPlmg0c

WARNING: Backup original files!
Put this file on the fodd/db/units folder, in the 1.03 test version (or in the future new version) and it will do its magic. All divisions/brigades changed, all other stats intact. Might want to put this on the first page as a optional download.

(forgot to chage implants and alien armor secret techs, recommend people to alter it)

Sword, which file I have to change to link a unit type to a sprite? Was thinking of trying to get some new sprites: I know Fallout: The Rebirth of Civilization (fine mod BTW, its dead but its good, did you ever check it?) had a nice Combat Armor sprite. Was also thinking to get jeep/buggy sprites as well.

BTW, how you guys got the FOT 'sprites'? I know they're not actually sprites but 3D images, because its way easier to do them than normal sprites were, and you can customize them with colors with ease, allowing the player to color himself and his troops in-game, especially in multy. I was thinking of getting Tribal and Supermutant images, but somehow colored light blue, to stash in the future for Beastlord/Nightkin (Mutant Scout unit?) units.

I believe we had that very discussion a couple of pages back!
I think the maximum number should probably be 90 and the minimum should be 10 or so. We want there to be some dramatic differences between unprepared militia and a mechanised infantry unit in combat. Either way, all the techs and stuff have to be made to be -n rather than +n but hopefully that won't be too hard.
How did you work out the air defence maximum of 36?
I think you can go into the negatives, after all, some Brigades take stats off but I guess the only way to find out would be to test it. The main issue there is what the hell does a negative number do gamewise? Maybe it is like dividing by zero...

In my system, the minimum is 100 (Powered Human/Ghoul Marines) and the maximum is 215 Offensive Vulnerability (Marauders/Wasteland Warriors).

My 100 formula was produced based on all techs that increase resistances (+50 with Implants and Alien Armor) + maximum change by attachment (Omega Squadron, +30) + 20 for safety.
So a max-tech Power Armor unit using the Omega Squadron can reach 20 Defensive/Offensive Vulnerability, depeding if its a human unit (+10 Offensive) or a ghoul (+10 defensive).

I worked air/surface defenses maximum of 36 in the same way: Search for the maximum resistance unit, see the maximum increasing the value and base it as the max, and in surface I added +4 to go to 40, dunno why.

Bear in mind this system is not perfect; I don't know the 1.3 system in its entieriety. I know, however, that the new system is designed to give diminishing returns to attacks through sheer numbers in order to weaken classic uberstack tactics and games of "your uberstack against my uberstack", which I'm ok with because Quantity-based armies can be very dangerous in FODD, especially in the hands of the Slavers' Guild's members, and the new map already makes things more interesting to them: On one hand, they need to cover more ground, on the other they CAN cover more ground but their troops are weaker. Huns are similarly scary now but in a different way.

This is more of a "patch" intended to fix the problem of higher-tech units getting frailer and inferior troops being tougher.

Yeah just a minus sign on techs and brigades is actually the easy part, going through units, putting old values in a ODF file and them making the brutal mathemagics (and I'm not mathemagician) was the hard part.

Dunno what happens if you go negatives on stat, gonna search for it. Better not risk it for a while.

When I get home I will test my new system and send feedback.
 

Arcangelus

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Already examined and changed, take a peek at this file and ignore the previous ones:

https://mega.co.nz/#!8ZcWFAiD!TtyTwkqAttoE4g4FplEDh0cH0Ft9amUwP2j9SPlmg0c

WARNING: Backup original files!
Put this file on the fodd/db/units folder, in the 1.03 test version (or in the future new version) and it will do its magic. All divisions/brigades changed, all other stats intact. Might want to put this on the first page as a optional download.
(forgot to change implants and alien armor secret techs, recommend people to alter it)
Why is this asking for a decryption key? And how am I supposed to get it?


In my system, the minimum is 100 (Powered Human/Ghoul Marines) and the maximum is 215 Offensive Vulnerability (Marauders/Wasteland Warriors).

My 100 formula was produced based on all techs that increase resistances (+50 with Implants and Alien Armor) + maximum change by attachment (Omega Squadron, +30) + 20 for safety.
So a max-tech Power Armor unit using the Omega Squadron can reach 20 Defensive/Offensive Vulnerability, depeding if its a human unit (+10 Offensive) or a ghoul (+10 defensive).

I worked air/surface defenses maximum of 36 in the same way: Search for the maximum resistance unit, see the maximum increasing the value and base it as the max, and in surface I added +4 to go to 40, dunno why.

Bear in mind this system is not perfect; I don't know the 1.3 system in its entieriety. I know, however, that the new system is designed to give diminishing returns to attacks through sheer numbers in order to weaken classic uberstack tactics and games of "your uberstack against my uberstack", which I'm ok with because Quantity-based armies can be very dangerous in FODD, especially in the hands of the Slavers' Guild's members, and the new map already makes things more interesting to them: On one hand, they need to cover more ground, on the other they CAN cover more ground but their troops are weaker. Huns are similarly scary now but in a different way.
Considering that the maximum Defensive Vulnerability value used in DH full is 45 (for militia) and the minimum is 10 (last HQ), 60-10 for Offensive Vulnerability, I have my concerns about your system. Namely that any combat will worn out the units really fast (probably dying before the org low enough to retreat) and that no unit will sustain more than 3 battles without disbanding (Using your example as basis, during most of the game the units in combat will receive more damage that your average militia in DH). No idea about the other 2 values, as I don't know what they do.

About the negative stats... 1 of 4: The game take it as 0 for combat purposes, uses the maximum possible value plus your number, Takes negative damage (I don't thing it would), uses the absolute of the number given. As the game accepts negative supply cost (they seem to create supplies), I would go with N°3, but can't be 100% without testing.
 

Slaughter

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Why is this asking for a decryption key? And how am I supposed to get it?



Considering that the maximum Defensive Vulnerability value used in DH full is 45 (for militia) and the minimum is 10 (last HQ), 60-10 for Offensive Vulnerability, I have my concerns about your system. Namely that any combat will worn out the units really fast (probably dying before the org low enough to retreat) and that no unit will sustain more than 3 battles without disbanding (Using your example as basis, during most of the game the units in combat will receive more damage that your average militia in DH). No idea about the other 2 values, as I don't know what they do.

About the negative stats... 1 of 4: The game take it as 0 for combat purposes, uses the maximum possible value plus your number, Takes negative damage (I don't thing it would), uses the absolute of the number given. As the game accepts negative supply cost (they seem to create supplies), I would go with N°3, but can't be 100% without testing.

No idea, try this one: https://mega.co.nz/#!8ZcWFAiD!TtyTwkqAttoE4g4FplEDh0cHoFt9amUwP2j9SPlmg0c

Interesting, I will try it in-game and see how it does. Perhaps extra-lethal combat to make the game harder, and force the player to invest more in getting extra manpower/better armor/stronger units, or alternatively go full cannon fodder and bury the enemy in endless cannon fodder?

Fighting something like, say, two Power Armor units with ten level 3 regulars should end with a few units getting wiped out during combat. Look at Operation: Sunburst in falloutwikia, if I remember right it was 100 BOS vs 3000 NCR, NCR takes thousands of dead soldiers and wins because the BOS is on a bad defensive position and Father Elijah failed to activate ARCHIMEDES I and bailed.

There is... potential.
How are the normal stats in vanilla? My memory is shit. Max stat in default FODD is 130, lesser is 25. Bear in mind WW2 had foot infantry using pretty much no armor but a helmet, while Fallout has people using anything from naked skin to suits of power armor made of ceramics that can take a rocket to the plate without being destroyed, through I guess defensive/offensive vulnerability is not just armor (that's more on Softness) but also capacity for cover (which is why Ghouls >>> Supermutants on defensive), combat attitude, weaponry, etc.

Wait, negative supply cost creates supplies? Does that mean we can theorically simulate a nomadic tribe with certain units and giving them heinous supply industrial efficiency penalties? Interdasting...

Gotta really test that, could be wacky.
 

NLStak

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Ahum... On which page I can download the version for 1.03 ?

Edit : I found, Beta(Well some kind of Beta :D) version page 77 if someone else want to know.

Good job to the author btw.
 
Last edited:

Arcangelus

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This one works

Interesting, I will try it in-game and see how it does. Perhaps extra-lethal combat to make the game harder, and force the player to invest more in getting extra manpower/better armor/stronger units, or alternatively go full cannon fodder and bury the enemy in endless cannon fodder?

Fighting something like, say, two Power Armor units with ten level 3 regulars should end with a few units getting wiped out during combat. Look at Operation: Sunburst in falloutwikia, if I remember right it was 100 BOS vs 3000 NCR, NCR takes thousands of dead soldiers and wins because the BOS is on a bad defensive position and Father Elijah failed to activate ARCHIMEDES I and bailed.
No need for the wiki just to see that: I played the FNV. I didn't finished thought, as I wasn't sure if was better give NV to House (a somewhat-benevolent dictatorship), let NCR spread their corrupt the-facto monarchy (I dare you to prove otherwise) or just screw everyone and put myself in charge (just the followers made me doubt in this one, the rest was acceptable, with BoS being a unfortunate collateral damage).
Yes, the superiorly trained and equipped BoS massacred the not-so-trained and less equipped NCR, but from where sis you got those numbers? AFAIK, no numbers were actually given. Besides, I have a hard time believing that an attacking army taking losses in a 10-1 ratio will not lose morale and stop the waves if no clear damage is done, never mind the 30-1 ratio that you suggest.

BTW, does NCR only know how to do frontal attacks? They are no Russia nor China, for god sake. A 6 old boy could think of something more subtle. A veteran general should be able to come up with something better (cut them of supplies, put anti-personal mines in the surroundings and prepare ambuscades for instance. Or try to flank them). As a matter of fact, the only guys using any strategy at all are the Legion (guerrilla and psychological warfare, should improve in the later one) and House (through politic intrigue and a Machiavelli approach that can backfire). BoS provably knows how, but I didn't see it in game. The player can too, but doesn't really need so.
Even the Boomers use more strategy than NCR (psychological warfare, albeit unintentionally, and carpet bombing). And when bunch of tribals (Dead Horses) are better, you have no excuse.

There is... potential.
How are the normal stats in vanilla? My memory is shit. Max stat in default FODD is 130, lesser is 25. Bear in mind WW2 had foot infantry using pretty much no armor but a helmet, while Fallout has people using anything from naked skin to suits of power armor made of ceramics that can take a rocket to the plate without being destroyed, through I guess defensive/offensive vulnerability is not just armor (that's more on Softness) but also capacity for cover (which is why Ghouls >>> Supermutants on defensive), combat attitude, weaponry, etc.
When I tried to convert the mod values to the new system, I looked at the values in 1.02 and their equivalents in 1.03. The end result: There is no relation. The system was remade from scratch, as there are no consistent way to take numbers from one an give them to the other. However, I made some interesting discoveries:
1. A division tend to keep their vulnerability values between models, with few exceptions.
2. This exceptions seem a little arbitrary. For instance, while it make sense that the mechanization of a division decrease it vulnerability, the amount varies wildly between divisions: Mech-marines get a -10 relative to the other models, while cavalry receive -2 for mechanization and a additional -4 for helicopters. On the other hand, Mountain division increase their vulnerability with new models (24/28/35 and 28/34/40).

For more concrete numbers:
Offensive/Defensive vulnerability by unit (*X means for x models, no mention means no changes):
Armor: 18/22
Mountain Divisions (bergsjaeger): 28*6, 34*2, 40*10 /24*6, 28*2, 35*10
Cavalry: 28*12, 26*1, 14*2/ 22*12, 20*1, 14*2
Garrison: 40/35
HQ: 40*2, 30, 20, 15, 10/30*2, 20*2, 15, 10
Infantry: 40/35
Light Armor: 26/20
Marine: 40, 30*1/35, 25*1
Mechanized: 26/20
Militia: 60*5, 55*3, 50*2/ 45*6, 40*4
Motorized: 28/22
Paratrooper: 40/35

Wait, negative supply cost creates supplies? Does that mean we can theorically simulate a nomadic tribe with certain units and giving them heinous supply industrial efficiency penalties? Interdasting...

Gotta really test that, could be wacky.
According to a bug report in NMDM, it does so. So yes, it should be possible.

Well, that took me a while to write down. Oh well, whatever.
 

EmperorWillham

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This one works


No need for the wiki just to see that: I played the FNV. I didn't finished thought, as I wasn't sure if was better give NV to House (a somewhat-benevolent dictatorship), let NCR spread their corrupt the-facto monarchy (I dare you to prove otherwise) or just screw everyone and put myself in charge (just the followers made me doubt in this one, the rest was acceptable, with BoS being a unfortunate collateral damage).
Yes, the superiorly trained and equipped BoS massacred the not-so-trained and less equipped NCR, but from where sis you got those numbers? AFAIK, no numbers were actually given. Besides, I have a hard time believing that an attacking army taking losses in a 10-1 ratio will not lose morale and stop the waves if no clear damage is done, never mind the 30-1 ratio that you suggest.

BTW, does NCR only know how to do frontal attacks? They are no Russia nor China, for god sake. A 6 old boy could think of something more subtle. A veteran general should be able to come up with something better (cut them of supplies, put anti-personal mines in the surroundings and prepare ambuscades for instance. Or try to flank them). As a matter of fact, the only guys using any strategy at all are the Legion (guerrilla and psychological warfare, should improve in the later one) and House (through politic intrigue and a Machiavelli approach that can backfire). BoS provably knows how, but I didn't see it in game. The player can too, but doesn't really need so.
Even the Boomers use more strategy than NCR (psychological warfare, albeit unintentionally, and carpet bombing). And when bunch of tribals (Dead Horses) are better, you have no excuse.


When I tried to convert the mod values to the new system, I looked at the values in 1.02 and their equivalents in 1.03. The end result: There is no relation. The system was remade from scratch, as there are no consistent way to take numbers from one an give them to the other. However, I made some interesting discoveries:
1. A division tend to keep their vulnerability values between models, with few exceptions.
2. This exceptions seem a little arbitrary. For instance, while it make sense that the mechanization of a division decrease it vulnerability, the amount varies wildly between divisions: Mech-marines get a -10 relative to the other models, while cavalry receive -2 for mechanization and a additional -4 for helicopters. On the other hand, Mountain division increase their vulnerability with new models (24/28/35 and 28/34/40).

For more concrete numbers:
Offensive/Defensive vulnerability by unit (*X means for x models, no mention means no changes):
Armor: 18/22
Mountain Divisions (bergsjaeger): 28*6, 34*2, 40*10 /24*6, 28*2, 35*10
Cavalry: 28*12, 26*1, 14*2/ 22*12, 20*1, 14*2
Garrison: 40/35
HQ: 40*2, 30, 20, 15, 10/30*2, 20*2, 15, 10
Infantry: 40/35
Light Armor: 26/20
Marine: 40, 30*1/35, 25*1
Mechanized: 26/20
Militia: 60*5, 55*3, 50*2/ 45*6, 40*4
Motorized: 28/22
Paratrooper: 40/35

According to a bug report in NMDM, it does so. So yes, it should be possible.

Well, that took me a while to write down. Oh well, whatever.
Now we know why NCR has not won the war by now, and need's your help to do so. Damn you Campbell!!
 

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You could make those event decisions, to make it easier to the player to change the music when he find it suitable. For instance, with a few modifications, the samurai music:
Code:
###################
# Music of the Wastelands
###################
event = {
	id = 40031
	persistent = yes
	decision = { flag = special_music }
	trigger = { ai = no }

	name = "EVT_40031_NAME"
	desc = "EVT_40031_DESC"
	picture = tina_turner
	decision_picture = tina_turner
	style = 0

	date = { day = 6 month = february year = 2245 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { day = 29 month = december year = 2275 }

	action = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME40031A" # Back to normal please
		command = { }
		command = { type = songs which = peace.txt }
		}
	action = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME40031B" # Back to normal please
		command = { }
		command = { type = songs which = war.txt }
		}
	action = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME40031C" # Keep going
		command = { }
		command = { type = songs which = sixstring.txt  }
		}
	}
BTW, event 40808 is broken: it triggers itself.

Hey mate, thanks for writing this. It shows me how easy it is to make a decision event. I tested it but it doesn't work properly. Apart from some minor edits, it fires every 30 days. And also there is no icon to show events in the current mod interface. I suspect there is a setting in misc.txt to switch on the full interface with an icon for decisions, is that right?

Anyway, I can't put this in until someone does it for me. I'm busy on other mod work.


Cheers,
Sword
 

Arcangelus

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Hey mate, thanks for writing this. It shows me how easy it is to make a decision event. I tested it but it doesn't work properly. Apart from some minor edits, it fires every 30 days. And also there is no icon to show events in the current mod interface. I suspect there is a setting in misc.txt to switch on the full interface with an icon for decisions, is that right?

Anyway, I can't put this in until someone does it for me. I'm busy on other mod work.


Cheers,
Sword
The decisions are activated by going to misc.txt file and changing line 1065 to:
Code:
# Enable decisions for players. 0 - Disabled, 1 - Enabled
	1 #0
Do that and it should work. And, as it a decision, you may want to increase the offset (it won't matter to the player and will release load from the engine)
BTW, there isn't a dedicated decision image for this one, so it will use the same image in the decision tab that for the event. If more decision are added, it will clutter the view a little, but for now is a non issue.
 

SwordOfJustice

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@Arcangelus
Thanks mate. I'll probably convert one or two events into decisions given it's so easy.

@Slaughter
I've started going through the design documents for new nations to fill out the new map. I love the first one I've read which is the Beastlords. I've simply added a comment to the document. I think that's all you needed, is that right?

Status Update 04/12/2013
Yep, you guessed it: delays. My job has been quite hectic. Not much modding done this week.

The text I wrote for the Redding chain is often too long and gets cut off in the event window. I'm hacking and slashing it now.

I'll be doing some more bug hunting as well. Then into the stuff that was sent to me for Mexican Raiders.


Cheers,
Sword
 

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Curious if development is still going on.

Been on a New Vegas tear lately.

Yeah sorry for slow progress. Development is indeed going on.

- I debugged the Redding Wanamingo chain.
- I had to rewrite most of those events. The text was too long to fit in the window. I put a lot of effort into writing events for the mod. It's a creative expression for the atmosphere of the game. So that rewrite took a few hours.
- Played a test game. The event chain works very well and I found it a lot of fun.
- I added one item of music to a Former USA early event.
- I can't remember if I mentioned this already but I've added Brother Halan's unit graphics.
- I updated Redding's leaders to give them more Wastelands Leader traits. They mostly use irregulars.
- Found and fixed a bug preventing Pioneer leader Aldo's picture from showing.
- I read through an email from Brother Dowdpride where I asked him to research NCR background. Then I did further research online. I will be adding a death event for Tandi, updating their minister cabinets and adding several political events. This is as per my commitment to make NCR more compliant with the official game setting in the next release. It won't take me too long, I think. Tandi dies in the appropriate year, then there will be a power struggle as various alternative presidents vie for power. I also plan to add several leaders who rise up by the end of the mod's timeframe (end date 2275) that tie in directly to Fallout 3 New Vegas.
- I also read through more detail on western factions including Vipers, Khans, Caesar's Legion, Hecate and the other tribes. So I'm clearer now on how we can make the mod more Fallout 3 compliant.
- Based on my current test game, I plan to add an event to NCR to recall their rangers to form one battalion and several attachments if they get the 'Battle of the Line' events which fire if they lose territory in a war. This is useful in holding off the powerful Brotherhood army and makes sense.
- I'll also add second air and naval bases in the LA Boneyard so that their can rebase their air force and navy if they lose their main bases.

The next release gets closer all the time but I work in a slow and chaotic way and real life intrudes, so that two week timeframe just keeps extending. Anyway, at least this mod gets done, unlike so many others which simply fade away after promising starts.


Cheers,
Sword
 

SwordOfJustice

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Update 11/12/2013
I'm working through Brother Robert's submissions on Mexican Raiders and NROM. Fundamentally, it's good work. It adds events for Mexican Raiders, replaces leaders, ministers and tech teams with new ones that have a character more suitable for raiders. However, there are a number of bugs and incomplete events. So I'm reworking a lot of it. The starting industrial base for these raiders has been significantly cut. That's probably appropriate but it needs playtesting to ensure NROM does not easily crush them. I'll add events that strengthen them if they need it.

I haven't started the work on NCR yet but I'm clear on what I need to do for them.

Cheers,
Sword