Only played a couple of games, only one all the way. New game playing as England ver 1.4.1, won HYW, (with no allies), took the British isles, now allies with Austria, incorporated France, gobbling up Burgandy. Suffered through the Lollards and then a peasant war. After recovering, Castille (allied with Aragorn), is who I want to now take out. I check their military tech 10. England 6. Start checking every one around they are all 9 or 10. I get drawn into a war with both Burg & Castille (thanks Austria), lose my land army, my heavy ships win a few battles then get involved in an even (castile and Portugal) battle and get wiped. Not one ship out of 15 survived. They thankfully accept a white piece. Rebuild now my tech is 7. Castille is 11. Any thoughts on what I need to do to catch up or is it hopeless? If hopeless what do I need to do in the early game to keep up with the military tech? I was in a lot of wars, France, Scotland, Ireland, Burgandy, Switzerland, some German minors so I think my Army Tradition should be good. Did the peasant war, decades of doing nothing but recovering stability, paying off loans and fighting revolts set me back? When incorporated France their tech level dropped from 9 to mine. I know the starting English ruler is not the best and he lives forever, but he is gone now. Any suggestions would be helpful, thanks.
Falling behind in Military Tech
- Thread starter robz
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Basically, in your game, Castille got lucky, they start with two kings in a row that suck total balls. Your King lived to long is my guess. Basically you want an heir and then for him to kick the bucket, a 14 year regency is still better than 14 years of 0-0-0.
Stay away from war is all I can tell you, at least with Castille. 12 is super powerful and a huge jump over even 9, 10 is closer but not close enough. Just let the AE fade away and and do not build a single mil building or spend any mil points on anything other than catching up.
Ship battles are tough now. Why are you at war with Castille? You want to keep them from Colonizing or something? You should be pressing into the super rich HRE if you wish to war. I know you didn't start it, so you should be able to recover relations enough to RM and ally them.
Basically with sub 9 you cannot beat 10 unless you have a massive number advantage, and if they get 12 you can't fight them until you have 12.
Naval traditions is now a mandatory idea, maybe the first idea for England to take because, as you can see perhaps it does make a big difference.
If you don't take naval, just ally Castille and colonize like crazy. I don't know why you are so far behind, even with a 0 ruler you shouldn't be that far behind.
Stay away from war is all I can tell you, at least with Castille. 12 is super powerful and a huge jump over even 9, 10 is closer but not close enough. Just let the AE fade away and and do not build a single mil building or spend any mil points on anything other than catching up.
Ship battles are tough now. Why are you at war with Castille? You want to keep them from Colonizing or something? You should be pressing into the super rich HRE if you wish to war. I know you didn't start it, so you should be able to recover relations enough to RM and ally them.
Basically with sub 9 you cannot beat 10 unless you have a massive number advantage, and if they get 12 you can't fight them until you have 12.
Naval traditions is now a mandatory idea, maybe the first idea for England to take because, as you can see perhaps it does make a big difference.
If you don't take naval, just ally Castille and colonize like crazy. I don't know why you are so far behind, even with a 0 ruler you shouldn't be that far behind.
Devote all of your MIL points to tech investment and hire +3 MIL advisor if you can afford it, even if it means sacrificing other advisors. Don't build any barracks or forts, don't buy an military ideas, don't scorch the earth, don't assault, don't use harsh treatment, don't hire generals, and don't force march until you've caught up.
As you've learned, mil tech is hugely important and you've missed some major steps. You can afford to be at tech 8 when the enemy is at tech 9, which only unlocks star forts, but tech 7, 8, 10, and 12 are all hugely important to have parity. You're lucky you were able to get a white peace.
As you've learned, mil tech is hugely important and you've missed some major steps. You can afford to be at tech 8 when the enemy is at tech 9, which only unlocks star forts, but tech 7, 8, 10, and 12 are all hugely important to have parity. You're lucky you were able to get a white peace.
You have no hope a defeating them with such a large difference in Military tech, early game you have to stay in on par with your neighbours Military tech as there are a large number of jumps in Morale and Tactics bonuses (as well as much better infantry as you get firepower pips). 7 v 11 is the kind of difference you see when Western Nations stack wipe African and Indian Nations.
My guess is that you a) had a sub par monarch to follow up your terrible starting one and b) picked a Military idea relatively early and prioritised that over Mil Tech. Its an easy mistake to make as the buffs from the Ideas look nice, and the reminder that you can take an Idea sits there staring you in the face for a good year or two before you can get the tech. This is why I never take a Military idea group first, as you need to stay ahead on tech. I quite often take one as my second idea group, but you can't rush it - I try and only level up an Idea group while I am ahead of time for tech.
Its probably a tad late now, but in future I wouldn't rush to integrate France, they have a very powerful land military, particularly early on (as soon as they get the Elan idea they tend to stomp most of Europe) and usually they will take ideas which buff their military early as well, which lets you focus on other stuff.
My guess is that you a) had a sub par monarch to follow up your terrible starting one and b) picked a Military idea relatively early and prioritised that over Mil Tech. Its an easy mistake to make as the buffs from the Ideas look nice, and the reminder that you can take an Idea sits there staring you in the face for a good year or two before you can get the tech. This is why I never take a Military idea group first, as you need to stay ahead on tech. I quite often take one as my second idea group, but you can't rush it - I try and only level up an Idea group while I am ahead of time for tech.
Its probably a tad late now, but in future I wouldn't rush to integrate France, they have a very powerful land military, particularly early on (as soon as they get the Elan idea they tend to stomp most of Europe) and usually they will take ideas which buff their military early as well, which lets you focus on other stuff.
Can any point me to a guide on how the tech levels work? Is it as simple as if I don't spend any military points it rolls over into increasing my tech level? I did buy a lot of barracks to improve my manpower. I integrated France because a few times their doom stack would siege on province while I was getting wiped in the next province over. I also took the Defensive Idea followed by the Offensive idea and filled them out as the message comes up. Always had two or three generals, another mistake?
Oh, man... That was a bad idea. You wasted ~5600 MIL points on ideas. That's why you are behind.
No, he only wasted 4800. The 800 spent on +25% morale and forced march were worth it.
Everything in Offensive is good, silly
Naturally not better than tech, however. Through getting Offensive and Defensive is silly (I never do it for roleplaying reasons) the extra Siege stat is quite useful once everyone has level 4 forts.
Naturally not better than tech, however. Through getting Offensive and Defensive is silly (I never do it for roleplaying reasons) the extra Siege stat is quite useful once everyone has level 4 forts.
So I should only fill out the ideas if I am at the same tech levels with neighbors?
Yep. In military tech, always.
Administrative and diplomacy ideas however are usually a priority over their tech. It´s situational.
Administrative and diplomacy ideas however are usually a priority over their tech. It´s situational.
Yes, and whoever said the only benefit to 9 was star forts is wrong, there is a decent pip upgrade infantry unit there, at least for my West tech group games, nevermind that he gets eclipsed at 10, he's still better than a Longbowman.
In general though, you want to be ahead of them, I only buy mil ideas when I am 10 or more years ahead and this is because if you get breakpoint, say 10 before France, you can go nuts on them, it's well worth it to get to 12 first even if it leaves you 15 years ahead. So there is some discretion, check the wiki for the breakpoints.
Mainly you need to make sure you're at the same or better military tactics level.
You can catch up but it will take decades and you can't use your military points for anything but tech. If you want to try again, go Naval or Exploration -> Offensive or Quality for England. Generally buildings aren't a great investment monarch point wise unless you're ahead in tech/ideas as a large power such as England.
Well, really a Mil idea should be second for every country because you really do need to get to tech 5 before your enemies and even then the starter cannons can make a nice difference, so staying ahead is key. I would never start in military, the offensive group is not good enough to make up for the difference in pips between an 8 and a 10 army.
Gallogtrolls? Not good enough to be better than most mil ideas and certainly not worth paying ahead of time penalties, which you normally need to do in order to maintain tech parity with lucky nations.
It's not about 9, it's about 10, it's just technically wrong to say there is no upgrade at 9, they are better than Longbowmen, but you are right, they are worse than an upgrade from a mil idea, but it's not about them, it's about 10.
Totally. Tech 10 is one of those levels where you buy it just before you DoW against a major power or at the same time as your competitors, ahead of time penalties be damned.
Well, you don't stop there because you can get to 12 20 years ahead and it's worth it because you can take over all of Europe.