Fall of the Dominions

[Lukevan16]

One of the things that really surprised me about World War Wednesday was the seemingly minor consequences to Johan for losing India and New Zealand. Sure he lost an important ally and plenty of resources, but shouldn't there have been some type of national unity hit? I know the Dominions were independent by the Second World War, but they were still very very closely tied to the United Kingdom and to me it seems like losing a Dominion would be a huge blow to British morale. I think that there needs to be a special mechanic to simulate the relationship between Britain and her empire. I think that something like this would make playing as Britain or a commonwealth nation much more interesting, as Britain you'd have to protect the Commonwealth or risk them pulling troops away from your united forces for home defence (Like the Aussies did in '43), or as a commonwealth country you would be able to choose if you want to take a more pro-empire approach to the game, or finally break away entirely from Britain (Irish Free State game anyone?). I really think that this is something that would really improve Hearts of Iron 4 if it was modeled properly, and to be honest I was a bit disappointed when the only references to the empire in the U.K dev diary were a few national focuses to improve them.

 

[Sir Pellew]

I'd agree with you given how shocked the British were on the fall of Singapore.

 

[tfrules]

I find it very likely that there will be DLC on these sorts of things after release.

 

[Lukevan16]

I find it very likely that there will be DLC on these sorts of things after release.

I imagine there will be, I mean how else is Paradox going to cut Vonboe out of the loop and release a "Commonwealth Forces" sprite pack? :'D

 

[daniyil123]

I would hope that it would hit his national unity, (since either DDRJake or Daniel said that they fixed the unity) especially since they held most of the resources for the UK.

 

[bERt0r]

I would think Australia should be punished (as in get invaded by a smart emperor) if they send all their army to die in europe and leave their own country unprotected. It is not the UK's job to protect Australia or New Zealand. After all they should be playable nations.

 

[Lukevan16]

I would think Australia should be punished (as in get invaded by a smart emperor) if they send all their army to die in europe and leave their own country unprotected. It is not the UK's job to protect Australia or New Zealand. After all they should be playable nations.

Well yes they should, but at the same time they're still in the empire in a sense, and while they are independent countries, the citizens of the United Kingdom would probably be shocked if a part of the empire fell to the Axis.

 

[goliard20]

let them bring out a good game, those things can be added later. Updates and DLCs will improfe it over the next years

 

[Axe99]

I find it very likely that there will be DLC on these sorts of things after release.

+ 1 to this and the OP. The Commonwealth hasn't been done well (or even close to well) in a HoI yet, so it's no surprise it's still a ways off yet, but hopefully the ongoing development model will bring a more historically plausible Commonwealth set-up to HoI4 at some point .

I would think Australia should be punished (as in get invaded by a smart emperor) if they send all their army to die in europe and leave their own country unprotected. It is not the UK's job to protect Australia or New Zealand. After all they should be playable nations.

Actually, the armed forces of Canada, the UK, South Africa, India, Australia and New Zealand all cooperated and coordinated through the Imperial General Staff, and the New Zealand 'Navy' up until 1941 was the New Zealand Division of the Royal Navy. While nominally independent, in effect the Commonwealth (particularly from a defence perspective) is probably best thought of as a loose confederation, not unlike the United States during the revolutionary wars.

 

[Katarian]

As the Commonwealth is portrayed as completely separate countries in HoI, though they will at least be in a faction together at the start of the game this time, I don't know why the UK should be punished for them falling.

If as the UK I was actually in charge of their forces and let them get invaded then I should be punished for that, but if the AI can't defend itself properly I shouldn't be punished for that. The UK has far too many areas to defend without having to also garrison the independent Commonwealth countries.

 

[Victor Cortez]

An HRE-like Mechanic were Britain is the "Emperor" could be used maybe?

 

[Scutatus]

I'd agree with you given how shocked the British were on the fall of Singapore.

Most of the shock from the loss of Singapore stemmed from two factors:
1) Early war propaganda had portrayed the Japanese as little more than animals, apes, in other words stupid and barbaric - and unfortunately the common view of Asians was little better. Europe - and especially Britain - was still in the (last years of the ) age of empire and imperial attitudes still dominated. Many British still believed they were a "superior race" (we all know that to be NOT TRUE but sadly, racism was still prevalent in the 1930s and 40s).

2) The strength of Singapore had been hyped up to ridiculous levels and was considered by most to be an impenetrable fortress, invincible and unconquerable. Unfortunately, what most people overlooked was that this was only true if the attacker obliged to attack by sea. It was not well known that the landward defences were far less impressive - because the powers that be had for some reason never foreseen that an attack might come from the north. Despite this, the public were told that Singapore could withstand any attack and would never fall. So when it did fall - and fall relatively quickly - the reality check was, of course, a shock.

But if New Zealand or Australia fell I am not sure it would have the same impact. When Burma was overrun just a month after Singapore, there didn't seem to be nearly as much reaction, even though India was threatened. By then of course the British had woken up to the fact that the Japanese were NOT inferior and on the contrary were kicking butt. By the time Burma fell the British were already used to reverses in Asia. India, Australia and New Zealand falling would have likely been a crisis - but not a surprise.

 

[Lukevan16]

Most of the shock from the loss of Singapore stemmed from two factors:
1) Early war propaganda had portrayed the Japanese as little more than animals, apes, in other words stupid and barbaric - and unfortunately the common view of Asians was little better. Europe - and especially Britain - was still in the (last years of the ) age of empire and imperial attitudes still dominated. Many British still believed they were a "superior race" (we all know that to be NOT TRUE but sadly, racism was still prevalent in the 1930s and 40s).

2) The strength of Singapore had been hyped up to ridiculous levels and was considered by most to be an impenetrable fortress, invincible and unconquerable. Unfortunately, what most people overlooked was that this was only true if the attacker obliged to attack by sea. It was not well known that the landward defences were far less impressive - because the powers that be had for some reason never foreseen that an attack might come from the north. Despite this, the public were told that Singapore could withstand any attack and would never fall. So when it did fall - and fall relatively quickly - the reality check was, of course, a shock.

But if New Zealand or Australia fell I am not sure it would have the same impact. When Burma was overrun just a month after Singapore, there didn't seem to be nearly as much reaction, even though India was threatened. By then of course the British had woken up to the fact that the Japanese were NOT inferior and on the contrary were kicking butt. By the time Burma fell the British were already used to reverses in Asia. India, Australia and New Zealand falling would have likely been a crisis - but not a surprise.

Well they might not have been a surprise, but surely there would've been a major impact back home, and even more so if ALL OF INDIA fell.

 

[Botox]

I'd say it would depend on the circumstances when those members of the commonwealth fall.

Say Great Britain is alone, so near the "start" of the war when it is just more or less Axis vs. Commonwealth and Indochina, Australia and New Zealand fall, India is threatened, while Germany has made itself comfortable in Europe and it seems that the M-R Pact with USSR works, I think it would mean a great hit as in "Can we rly do it?". More so if the blockade of Britain is on its max efficiency.

It would be kind of different when those Nations fall but Germany already attacked USSR and the US just intervened in the war and Britain is not alone anymore. It would surely be seen as a grave loss, but they do have new allies and are not alone against an unstopable force.

 

[Aries666]

An HRE-like Mechanic were Britain is the "Emperor" could be used maybe?

This is what I was going to suggest. That could then set up bonuses/penalties for the British depending on how well/poorly they treat and defend the empire. You could also incorporate a liberty desire type mechanic to it too that allows commonwealth nations to pursue complete independence.

 

[Victor Cortez]

This is what I was going to suggest. That could then set up bonuses/penalties for the British depending on how well/poorly they treat and defend the empire. You could also incorporate a liberty desire type mechanic to it too that allows commonwealth nations to pursue complete independence.

Yes. What I think could be interesting is if the UK player could choose to use all commonwealth troops (a bit like Spain ceded command of Spanish troops to Daniel). If the player decided to do so, he has to be careful not to slaughter them (and possibly use them in theaters closer to home), otherwise their liberty desires goes up.

So, use wisely Anzac troops in Asia = good.
Use South Africans to defend London in a massive bloodbath = SA declared independence.

DLC material maybe?

 

[Aries666]

Yes. What I think could be interesting is if the UK player could choose to use all commonwealth troops (a bit like Spain ceded command of Spanish troops to Daniel). If the player decided to do so, he has to be careful not to slaughter them (and possibly use them in theaters closer to home), otherwise their liberty desires goes up.

So, use wisely Anzac troops in Asia = good.
Use South Africans to defend London in a massive bloodbath = SA declared independence.

DLC material maybe?

Most certainly, something like this would set back the release timeframe.