FAKE : Victoria III - Napoleon's Legacy Reveal Trailer
- Thread starter monkeyz
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Not a bad idea for a title, and having the voice guy from the PBS documentary on the civil war (Ken burns is the writer, the speaker is David McCullough I think) doing some VO would be OK. But Napoleon is more EU4 than Vicky, I'd expect Paradox to have more emphasis on something actually in the time period of the game.
As much as i'd want that to be genuine it's blatantly fake. However, a start date at around 1800 would be fun.
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The problem with more start dates in Victoria II is that it hastens the inevitable economic collapse and unbalances the economy.
I have always thought that the Napoleonic era was more suitable to the Vicky games. I would end EU at 1789 (French Revolution) & start Victoria III at that date.
The Industrial Revolution has not gained momentum there yet so it would defeat the main purpose of the game.
Actually for the very same reason I would deem it a much better start date than V2's vanilla 1936 (and I do tremendously enjoy the Concert of Europe start in 1921).
In 1936, and with how V2's starting technologies are set up, there is little choice but to embrace industrialisation as quickly as possible. This actually changes for Uncivs in the middle-late game, because Civs have an efficiency advantage from technology, that allows them to out-compete their industries.
An earlier start date could still use factories to represent manufactories (available since ~1600), but a quandary between "do I push for industrialisation now, while it's costly and has little gain" and "do I come too late to the party to secure my share" would be much easier to model.
... Assuming, of course, the introduction of several mechanics (or abstractions of packages of them) which are lamentably absent from V2, such as brand strength (historically a major limiter of German industrialisation), product substitution (for different-quality products between artisans and factories; also good for about any other trouble that plagues the V2 economy), shortage management (e.g. raising prices to overcome the "someone else buys it all" effect; raising prices to keep someone else from overcoming it), etc. .
Political shifts coming along with the emergence of an industry is already a thing in V2 (via demographical shifts), but I have never seen a case where they were influential enough (compared to the economic benefits) to care about them in making the decision to industrialise. Political shifts as an effect of shifts in economic power (as opposed to just a different type of pop increasing in raw number) would be another mechanic that might render industrialisation a dubious (and therefore meaningful) endeavour at an earlier start date.
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How do you represent the Napoleonic Wars? Not only that, but how do you fix the extended time period the game runs for without breaking the game? How do you model the affect the Napoleonic Wars had on industrialization? How much effort is it take to put in the mechanics?
I'm sorry how are the napoleonic wars much diffrent from any other wars? The french take a bunch of land set up a bunch of sphere countries and then lose them again. It's not like EU4 handles that era well either.
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As theDungen says, EU4 doesn't fit the Napoleonic period well, & unlike Victoria 2 goes on far to long timescale for what it is about.. Why do you think the earlier EU games ended at the start of this period. Starting around this time would enable players to prepare for industrialisation & not appear in the middle of it, & also ensure a clear beginning/end between the two games.
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The napoleonic wars pretty much fit with the combat models in either vicky or EU4 so I think that works either way. Ships shooting at ships, infantry/cavalry/artillery, with various tactics. And the napoleonic wars don't radically change the nature of industrialiization. I think the main problem is that the congress of vienna leaves britain as the dominant global power, which creates a huge advantage into the Vicky time frame, so a game that starts 1789 or 1815 gives a huge advantage to whomever wins the mess world hands you at the beginning.
The 'economic collapse' of late game vicky seems to be a demand problem in general (which I suppose is sort of realistic), along with some resource choke points. Some of the social reforms reduce pop demand (which is assbackwards) for goods, rendering some factories that should be profitable unprofitable. Those are just maths problems though. Probably they could fix some things (like developing country industrialization) by giving factories bonuses based on size, and then have techs that let you build factories faster. Basically china (and or India) would want to build big low tech factories, whereas rich countries would build smaller higher tech factories. The game also runs into demand problems as the huge standing armies and navies don't require enough resource upkeep to keep the factories going in peacetime. I think that's just a matter of upping the upkeep requirements and having more peacetime demand. Pops should try and spend everything they can on goods available in certain ratios (except food), except for capitalists. Pikettey's capital in the 21st century has given us a lot to think about for historical wealth/labour/goods, and it seems like a lot of that could make it into a vicky3 pretty easily. Probably, to keep the AI from crippling itself even laissez faire governments should be allowed to subsidize factories, it should just raise consciousness among certainly classes in the province (except for military factories maybe), and one of the tech lines should open up more factory slots and bigger factories (so the AI doesn't run out of slots for the valuable factories late game). So in a napoleonic wars start you'd have 'factories' but they'd be only for say military goods, ships and other obvious national assets, farmers etc. would still produce other goods (furniture and textiles), just really inefficiently, as factory inventions happen you would fire (global) events that reduce that production for textiles and furniture while it's replaced by actual factories.
The 'economic collapse' of late game vicky seems to be a demand problem in general (which I suppose is sort of realistic), along with some resource choke points. Some of the social reforms reduce pop demand (which is assbackwards) for goods, rendering some factories that should be profitable unprofitable. Those are just maths problems though. Probably they could fix some things (like developing country industrialization) by giving factories bonuses based on size, and then have techs that let you build factories faster. Basically china (and or India) would want to build big low tech factories, whereas rich countries would build smaller higher tech factories. The game also runs into demand problems as the huge standing armies and navies don't require enough resource upkeep to keep the factories going in peacetime. I think that's just a matter of upping the upkeep requirements and having more peacetime demand. Pops should try and spend everything they can on goods available in certain ratios (except food), except for capitalists. Pikettey's capital in the 21st century has given us a lot to think about for historical wealth/labour/goods, and it seems like a lot of that could make it into a vicky3 pretty easily. Probably, to keep the AI from crippling itself even laissez faire governments should be allowed to subsidize factories, it should just raise consciousness among certainly classes in the province (except for military factories maybe), and one of the tech lines should open up more factory slots and bigger factories (so the AI doesn't run out of slots for the valuable factories late game). So in a napoleonic wars start you'd have 'factories' but they'd be only for say military goods, ships and other obvious national assets, farmers etc. would still produce other goods (furniture and textiles), just really inefficiently, as factory inventions happen you would fire (global) events that reduce that production for textiles and furniture while it's replaced by actual factories.
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Though a Vicky-style Napoleonic game would be neat IMO, Nappy isn't Victoria related, because... any divergence during the Napoleonic period (*gasp* French victory!) pretty much erases the Victorian age, which is pretty much the focus of the game.
Also, the title says Napoleon's Legacy you could say the 19th century was pretty much Nappy's legacy.
Also, the title says Napoleon's Legacy you could say the 19th century was pretty much Nappy's legacy.
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Another good point.Though a Vicky-style Napoleonic game would be neat IMO, Nappy isn't Victoria related, because... any divergence during the Napoleonic period (*gasp* French victory!) pretty much erases the Victorian age, which is pretty much the focus of the game.
Also, the title says Napoleon's Legacy you could say the 19th century was pretty much Nappy's legacy.
The Napoleonic Wars were unique in the massive coalitions that formed against France. France defeated them all against all odds. How is Victoria II going to simulate that? Also, what are we going to call Victoria II? Victoria and/or Napoleon III? But that wouldn't work because Napoleon III is someone different!
Victoria, not Napoleon era. Also, you prepare for industrialization in 1836. In the Napoleonic Era, there still isn't industrialization so that defeats the main purpose of the game for the beginning decades. There is a good beginning in Victoria II and a good end.
It is way too confusing for Victoria II.
Thank you.Though a Vicky-style Napoleonic game would be neat IMO, Nappy isn't Victoria related, because... any divergence during the Napoleonic period (*gasp* French victory!) pretty much erases the Victorian age, which is pretty much the focus of the game.
Also, the title says Napoleon's Legacy you could say the 19th century was pretty much Nappy's legacy.
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Napoleonic stuff doesn't really work in EU. It really ought to be in its own game, a good one tho
But the events of the napoleonic wars is what causes the victorian age, it should really be called the post napoleonic age. Really what did victoria really do except inheriting throne.Though a Vicky-style Napoleonic game would be neat IMO, Nappy isn't Victoria related, because... any divergence during the Napoleonic period (*gasp* French victory!) pretty much erases the Victorian age, which is pretty much the focus of the game.
Also, the title says Napoleon's Legacy you could say the 19th century was pretty much Nappy's legacy.