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Kamamura

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It strikes me as a perfect expression of the biggest problem.

It looks greats. It sounds great. It's great at first play. But after the first few levels you quickly find out that the game really requires meta-gaming. You need to know beforehand where things are and where events will come from if you want to complete a level. Either buy a nifty overpriced hint book, read the forums, or play through each level many times just so you know what you have to do where and when since you won't be able to complete the last half of the levels without this prior knowledge.

To use strategy means you need to be able to predict likely needs for events and be able to adjust to events accordingly. Here, either you pretty much have it right from the start or you get to start over knowing ahead of time what you'll need. It quickly gets fairly boring pretty fast.

Level design is a disaster in this regard. You have no idea what strategy to use until it's too late but then you get to do it over again all prepared.

Reading on many forums pretty much confirmed this belief long before I finished the game (hoping at some point one could beat a level just from effort without having to rely on meta-gaming). Either you read the forums for someone else who's played a level 4-5 times and figured it out, buy a book, or play through each level yourself a handful of times to know what you need to do for it. Monotonous, real quick.

Nothing seems to be wrong with the basic design of the game itself; it was fairly interesting the way to 'command' units by coercing them. But the level design is horrendous.

I prefer games with levels that require thinking, adjusting, adapting and not blind guessing. Fortunately, there's lots of them out there. Just not here.


from user TheBlindRat
 

Hassat Hunter

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since you won't be able to complete the last half of the levels without this prior knowledge.

Funny, consdering I was able to do just that. Sure; I had to replay "Return of Your Majesty" once, but that was because of a darned bug making Mr. Demon not respond to my Crown and thus decimate half my town and hero-detail.
 

ItsEggrollTime

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That's not true at all. The first time I played the campaign I beat every quest on the first try except for the one with The Skeleton King. You don't need prior knowledge to throw down some explore flags. Two or three of them in the beginning should give the player more than enough information to complete the quest. The reviewer sounds like a typical modern gamer crying because a game doesn't hold his hand. Is it really so hard to click the right mouse button once in a while?
 

unmerged(170187)

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the game is super easy I have no idea what this guy is saying

It's because people have widely varying skills at gaming. For example I got some friends who play FPS games all the time and they can snipe like crazy even with normal guns. And they have been accused by "noobs" that they were cheating because "there was no way a person could make that shot".

And that is the problem with balancing any game. Some people will think it is way to easy while others will think it's down right impossible. And the developers and beta testers are often the worst judges on difficultly most of the time because they play it over and over for testing so they get a lot of practice and get really good at it.
 
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It's because people have widely varying skills at gaming. For example I got some friends who play FPS games all the time and they can snipe like crazy even with normal guns. And they have been accused by "noobs" that they were cheating because "there was no way a person could make that shot".

And that is the problem with balancing any game. Some people will think it is way to easy while others will think it's down right impossible. And the developers and beta testers are often the worst judges on difficultly most of the time because they play it over and over for testing so they get a lot of practice and get really good at it.

That's why games (should) have multiple difficulty settings.
 

unmerged(7333)

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...You don't need prior knowledge to throw down some explore flags. Two or three of them in the beginning should give the player more than enough information to complete the quest. The reviewer sounds like a typical modern gamer crying because a game doesn't hold his hand...

If what you say is true, then you confirmed the reviewer's contention that "level design is horrendous". Finding out all you need to know with 2 or 3 flags isn't interesting, isn't fun, and doesn't sound like any Majesty I know. If what you say is true, what a waste of the whole ranger class, and explore mission. But if finding out all you need to know with 2 or 3 flags isn't boring enough for you, just play the map again, and now you don't even need those, because you already know where everything is.

It had nothing to do with the game not 'holding his hand'. The game doesn't need to hold your hand because it doesn't take you anywhere.
 

Hassat Hunter

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So what does MFKS2 do now? Does it not give you any info at all and then crush you because of it (OP statement) or does it give too much info too soon and make it a cakewalk (your statement)?

And if the second is the case, how can that reinforce the first case point, considering it's like the exact opposite. I am getting confused here :wacko:.

PS. you never needed 2 or 3 flags in MFKS1 to begin with, so I don't really see the comparison much.
The level design isn't "horrible", it just suffers from lack of randomnisation like the MFKS1 maps had. Which where still semi-fixed though, so you could still easily know where everything was and flag it quickly...
 

ItsEggrollTime

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Well MFKS1 had better level design because of random lair placement, in theory. However, because of overactive rangers the random layouts didn't really make much of a difference. No matter where the lairs are placed you'll know their exact locations a few minutes after building a ranger's guild. I honestly don't see much of a difference in gameplay between throwing down a few explore flags or always building a ranger's guild. MFKS1 has the edge because it's possible to play without using rangers as robot explorers but that's a rare occurrence.

Truthfully, I think both games are lacking when it comes to exploration and layout. I would like Majesty 2 end up somewhere in the middle. The rangers should explore more than they do now but they shouldn't be automatic map revealers like they were in the first game. The game engine doesn't allow random lair placement so that's not going to happen, but the developers can add some randomization if they are creative. Maybe they can make lairs spit out random monsters instead of one type or they can make lairs upgrade over time to a random tier 2 lair. The initial placements will still be the same but if they upgrade at random it'll at least add some replay value by providing different enemies each time a quest is played.
 

unmerged(169164)

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The OP is not extensive enough. Majesty 2 is a recipes game.

Knowing the map is required when you opt for turtling. Then exploring is a must do. If you dont, your city design will be flawed and you will have to restart the mission.
If you opt for rushing, then it is not and you need to squeeze as much as possible monster lairs as your primary resources.

People who find Majesty 2 very difficult might experience troubles because they only apply half of a recipe.
 

Alfryd

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Personally speaking (I'm on the last SP mission now,) I was generally able to beat a mission after one or two attempts (though it took 3 to 5 in some cases,) and I agree that a skilled/knowledgeable player could probably breeze through the campaign more-or-less painlessly. Personally though, I did still get the definite sensation of having to jump through arbitrary, predefined hoops more often than I was happy with.
 

ItsEggrollTime

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Have a couple of deamonwood in M1 and I can guarantee your rangers stop being map revealers, at least, not unless you pay explore flags/rez :)

Those wretched trees are one of my most hated monsters in the first game. I've heard, "I join the wild spirits" too many times because of them. I hope they bring them back in an expansion pack, I'm always up for a good challenge :)
 

Hassat Hunter

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Same here, same here.

As for the difficulty question; replayed the "Eternal Love" mission. Apparently my memory failed me somewhat there, since I kept the graveyards for leveling and got greatly surprised by the Liches popping out of them, massacaring Warriors, Elves, Wizards and generally my entire town. Even though I lost 80% of my heroes by the time the graveyards where destroyed, hadn't found the lost love when the Skeleton King arrived (and thus fight a harder battle, however I did get to the "Bride" halfway the battle, which kind of sucked because people died during the cutscene :() I was able to make it, because the Skeleton King himself (even with entourage) was too weak for my heroes.

Thus; t is possible to return from semi-complete slaughter, even if the situation looks dire and impossible. I wonder what you have to do to completely falter at all (well, there is the final mission where I *can* see it happen, but that's a special case).
 

ItsEggrollTime

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You can skip cut scenes by pressing spacebar. I always skip them so I can keep an eye on my heroes. The only exception is the last quest with the Baron of Logic. If you skip the cut scenes too fast he will completely ignore the Spirit King. He mentions a worthy rival but just keeps destroying the town until it's game over.

I do know what you mean about making a comeback. Recently a failed attack on the Ancient Lich resulted in all of my heroes dying except for one lazy wizard who went shopping instead of fighting. He defended the town by himself and gave me time to slowly resurrect my army.
 

Hassat Hunter

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Oh, I know, but there are 2 cutscene's after each other there, and you still need to wait a little when pressing the bar.

But the few deaths didn't really mattered overall in killing the King. Less annoying that the first time I played Demon's Advisor and my Lord got killed just before the Advisor got killed and I didn't have enough time to resurrect him and thereby save his progress :(.