Factory Construction Historical?

[Arthrodira]

I rarely convert factories from civilian to military when I play the game, instead preferring to just build new factories. However, factory conversion was how the combatants actually built up their military production irl. This got me thinking, how many factories were actually BUILT (not converted) because of the war? I'm sure some exist, but I could not think of a single example. Anyone know anything about this? Should factory construction speed be nerfed (and starting factory count increased)?

 

[FindFloppies]

I rarely convert factories from civilian to military when I play the game, instead preferring to just build new factories. However, factory conversion was how the combatants actually built up their military production irl. This got me thinking, how many factories were actually BUILT (not converted) because of the war? I'm sure some exist, but I could not think of a single example. Anyone know anything about this? Should factory construction speed be nerfed (and starting factory count increased)?

The US built several new aircraft factories during the war, for example. Lots of shipyards were built as well.

 

[Arthrodira]

The US built several new aircraft factories during the war, for example. Lots of shipyards were built as well.

Shipyards yes - I was thinking factories specifically. I thought most of the new aircraft factories were really transformations and expansions of civilian factories - though I guess you could argue that building a new factory in game is analogous to expanding a factory irl.

 

[Zauberelefant]

I rarely convert factories from civilian to military when I play the game, instead preferring to just build new factories. However, factory conversion was how the combatants actually built up their military production irl. This got me thinking, how many factories were actually BUILT (not converted) because of the war? I'm sure some exist, but I could not think of a single example. Anyone know anything about this? Should factory construction speed be nerfed (and starting factory count increased)?

Heinkel Werke in Mecklenburg, Henschel and Krupp, Nibelungen Werke, plus hundreds of smaller Factories did increase their war production by means of investing in more capacity.
That's MIC building in my Book. Other companies like Mercedes, Maybach, BMW,
Volkswagen, converted to war materiel.

But under total war aspects, it's difficulty to draw a line - Henschel was locomotive producer, but these became war materiel...

 

[SophieX]

Shipyards yes - I was thinking factories specifically.

When you build a large number of new shipyards to build ships, you obviously need a ( new ) large amount of factories producing Ship-steel, guns, ammo, electronic-equipment etc....

 

[Zauberelefant]

Shipyards yes - I was thinking factories specifically. I thought most of the new aircraft factories were really transformations and expansions of civilian factories - though I guess you could argue that building a new factory in game is analogous to expanding a factory irl.

Detroit tank plant. Boeing plants, all these were massive new Industrial complexes exclusive for the war effort.

 

[Arthrodira]

Detroit tank plant. Boeing plants, all these were massive new Industrial complexes exclusive for the war effort.

As a Detroiter my understanding is that most of our WW2 factories were conversions and expansions, not de novo creations.

 

[Zauberelefant]

As a Detroiter my understanding is that most of our WW2 factories were conversions and expansions, not de novo creations.

Chrysler defence Arsenal. Purpose built for M4.

 

[FindFloppies]

Heinkel Werke in Mecklenburg, Henschel and Krupp, Nibelungen Werke, plus hundreds of smaller Factories did increase their war production by means of investing in more capacity.
That's MIC building in my Book. Other companies like Mercedes, Maybach, BMW,
Volkswagen, converted to war materiel.

But under total war aspects, it's difficulty to draw a line - Henschel was locomotive producer, but these became war materiel...

Detroit started producing tanks and trucks, and not just for US troops...
I guess that would be conversion, eh?

 

[Mister Analyst]

As a Detroiter my understanding is that most of our WW2 factories were conversions and expansions, not de novo creations.

True. But at least two Detroit area factories were new, very large, and built in record time.

Reference Detroit Tank Arsenal and Ford Willow Run factory.

Reference Detroit Tank Arsenal video and Ford Willow Run factory video.

 

[Fulmen]

First it should be established how much production a single CIC/MIC is representive of, since IRL factories can be anything from small individual plants to large industrial complexes. Take the Willow Run bomber plant for instance, it was a large manufacturing complex that by 1944 was churning out B-24 Liberators by the hour. It'd definitely be the equivalent of quite a few MIC in-game.

 

[Zauberelefant]

First it should be established how much production a single CIC/MIC is representive of, since IRL factories can be anything from small individual plants to large industrial complexes. Take the Willow Run bomber plant for instance, it was a large manufacturing complex that by 1944 was churning out B-24 Liberators by the hour. It'd definitely be the equivalent of quite a few MIC in-game.

I think given the reasons you mention, we can only approach it by another abstraction, like GDP.

 

[Fulmen]

Another important factor to consider is that the game lacks any kind of materiel market. IRL most minor nations bought most of their materiel from abroad, many bought virtually everything. This is partly why minors need to have more IC than their historical GDP justifies, though vanilla gives them so much that they can produce far more equipment than their budgets would've allowed purchasing IRL. Anyway just something to keep in mind if looking to mod in more historical IC numbers.

 

[Anaraxes]

And don't forget that the game isn't modelling the entire economy of a nation, but just the military portion. Consumer goods as an abstract total shows up, but there's also the large percentage of resources that vanish into the civilian economy, the percentage based on your laws. Those resources aren't being spitefully destroyed. They're just put to non-military uses by the unrepresented factories making things the game doesn't care about. So what most writers in a WW II history would probably call "conversion" would be moving a factory from the unrepresented space to the represented space -- in game terms, a new construction, a factory (of whichever type) where the game had none explicitly shown before.

 

[Fulmen]

And don't forget that the game isn't modelling the entire economy of a nation, but just the military portion. Consumer goods as an abstract total shows up, but there's also the large percentage of resources that vanish into the civilian economy, the percentage based on your laws. Those resources aren't being spitefully destroyed. They're just put to non-military uses by the unrepresented factories making things the game doesn't care about. So what most writers in a WW II history would probably call "conversion" would be moving a factory from the unrepresented space to the represented space -- in game terms, a new construction, a factory (of whichever type) where the game had none explicitly shown before.

Yep, and this also makes using GDP as the only reference point problematic. Ascertaining realistic IC figures would require an in-depth look at each and every nation; what they produced historically and what was theoretically possible and what was realistically possible; e.g. England could in theory have rearmed sooner than she did, but due to the resistance of the ruling class and the people to a certain extent (anti-war mentality), rearming sooner than she did was not particularly realistic.