Factory construction and conversions

[Denkt]

From the lastest WWW the cost of each factory are:

• Civilian factory 7200
• Military factory 3600
• Dockyard 3250

Military and civilian factories can also be converted to the other type of factory:

• Civilian to military 2000
• Military to civilian 4000

A civilian factory produce 5 output per day and a maximum of 15 factories can work at a construction project at a time. No resources are needed for any type of construction. Demobilizied economies have an easier time constructing civilian factories while mobilized economies have an easier time constructing military factories, dockyards are uneffected.

If you wan't to maximize your factory buildup speed you wan't to convert as many military factories as possible first because 4000 is much less then 7200. Then you wan't to build civilian factories. However this is very risky.

For a early military buildup you are probably better of building military factories, converting civilian factories to military from the start will most likely slow down your economy to much for the later game.

Building dockyards before military factories may be a good idea as ships take a long time to build and dockyards don't care about which economical law you use so building them during a demobilized economy and then building military factories during a mobilized economy is a good idea.

If you plan for a late war you are better of building civilian factories in the early game and later on as you mobilize your economy for war, converting civilian factories into military factories. Equipment will go obsolete but factories never do. Keeping a few military factories who produce equipment for lend lease and selfdefense may still be a good idea.

So if:

• Planing for early war build military factories
• Planing for a late war build civilian factories
• Build dockyards before military factories

A civilian factory have a payback time of about 4 years without any technology improvements.
However military factories are even weaker early game as they can only reach very low efficiency as well as the equipment they produce will go obsolete.

 

[sunnyboy310]

You also have to consider what ratio of civilian/military factories you need to efficiently build up for war. All your military factories are useless if you dont have the resources to feed them. So i would rather have a civilan factory which can be used to trade for example oil, than two military factories wich build my planes at half speed because of the lack of oil...

 

[Ragnar89]

So to convert a Military factory to a Civilian one i need 53 days using 15 Civilian Industries and no modifier? Seems pretty quick.

I'm sure that the Factory Output influence the speed, but does the Civilian Factory Construction Speed modifier influence the conversion? Or is it another modifier?

 

[Denkt]

There is a conversion modifier.

 

[Hagen67483]

Since germany has many military factorys and a medium number of civilian factorys iam not sure if it is better to use the CF to trade ressources for the MF or use the CF to build up more Industry. Because if we need 4 years until the Reich gets a plus out of additional CF, we are already in 1940+ and I think at that point a strong army could be more important than a strong economy. Based on the Idea that the Reich can just get more Factorys from "liberating" them from the evil allies or Russians.

Any Ideas about that?

 

[calebmarkle]

One thing you need to consider on top of just when you plan to go to war is that it may not be up to you. For example as the soviet Union deciding you won't be at war until mid 1941 so you build only civilian thinking you won't be at war until then. Suddenly in 1939 after Japan has finished off China decides to invade you in the east, followed up by Germany in 1940 after a bulk of your forces had to go east. You don't necessarily get to decide when you enter a war

 

[hkrommel]

So to convert a Military factory to a Civilian one i need 53 days using 15 Civilian Industries and no modifier? Seems pretty quick.

I'm sure that the Factory Output influence the speed, but does the Civilian Factory Construction Speed modifier influence the conversion? Or is it another modifier?

That seems about right tbh. In the US factories could be converted in an even shorter amount of time, you just need a short time to transition to the new schematic with some new equipment and you're set.

States that had a good amount of capital goods/capital good production capability (US, UK, Germany, France) should be able to convert very quickly. States that had a moderate ability to produce capital goods (USSR, Italy, probably Japan), would take slightly longer, countries with low ability (China, for example) would take a very, very long time, as it was historically. For gameplay reasons these are probably the same but you can always mod it. That way you can get historical industrialization (the lack of capital production ability being a major reason why China and the Soviet Union industrialized so painfully (and poorly compared to other nations)).

 

[afghanrabbit]

How do you convert factories? Is this based on your mobilization law?

 

[Secret Master]

If you wan't to maximize your factory buildup speed you wan't to convert as many military factories as possible first because 4000 is much less then 7200. Then you wan't to build civilian factories. However this is very risky.

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

Building a new civilian factory from scratch costs 7200.
Military factories cannot build factories.

So, the plan is to convert military factories to civilian for 4000, build more factories, then reconvert later (if necessary).

What is the time to convert a factory? The answer to that question would determine whether this strategy is a good idea.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

I do not think he meant that you should convert civ to mil later on; if you pay the conversion cost twice that's not efficient; I think his intent was to convert to get some civ and then build the mil he needs before the war.

PS: I like his other plan of building dockyards and then later build mil when I have increased mobilization. Getting a head start in the navy might be a big deal, because ships take a long time to build.

 

[hkrommel]

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

Building a new civilian factory from scratch costs 7200.
Military factories cannot build factories.

So, the plan is to convert military factories to civilian for 4000, build more factories, then reconvert later (if necessary).

What is the time to convert a factory? The answer to that question would determine whether this strategy is a good idea.

Even if this exploit exists I imagine that it would be patched quickly enough to make it obsolete, particularly by the time I can play the game (earliest for me would be a couple weeks after release).

 

[panzerzombie]

You also have to consider what ratio of civilian/military factories you need to efficiently build up for war. All your military factories are useless if you dont have the resources to feed them. So i would rather have a civilan factory which can be used to trade for example oil, than two military factories wich build my planes at half speed because of the lack of oil...

Quite right, but all the WWW Players ignored that and fed their MFs just scraps concentrating fully on building new CFs....didn´t quite understand that logic especially for germany when time is precious and you face a war soon ( meaning as germany you run out of peaceful options soon and if you don´t expand you will be outpaced in the arms race ).

 

[Caesar15]

Quite right, but all the WWW Players ignored that and fed their MFs just scraps concentrating fully on building new CFs....didn´t quite understand that logic especially for germany when time is precious and you face a war soon ( meaning as germany you run out of peaceful options soon and if you don´t expand you will be outpaced in the arms race ).

Yeah the complete lack of resources in production was concerning. However, I think that will be balanced out soon enough.

 

[wright1331]

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

Building a new civilian factory from scratch costs 7200.
Military factories cannot build factories.

So, the plan is to convert military factories to civilian for 4000, build more factories, then reconvert later (if necessary).

What is the time to convert a factory? The answer to that question would determine whether this strategy is a good idea.

The answer to your question is in the OP

------------------------------------
Military and civilian factories can also be converted to the other type of factory:

• Civilian to military 2000
• Military to civilian 4000

------------------------------------

 

[SIRMER]

I think you can reduce cost of civilian factories by 40%. 20% by economic law and 20% by having certain capitalist. I do not know if they reduced bonuses. By having both you can increase economy and by 1938 you go for military as Germany.

 

[panzerzombie]

There is one Minister helping with Conversions of Factories ( Wiki says something meaningless but iirc it was said at some DD a reduction of 20-25% ). You may want him when following the conversion strategy.

So, assuming all the modifiers apply and are in place, you could have as much as a 80% IC conversion reduction from CF to MF ( WarEconomy +30% MFBuildspeed / Ministers: WarIndustrialist +20% Buildspeed & ArmamentsOrganizer -20% Conversion cost / Trading Law Export Focus +10% Output)
meaning a CF conversion costs now 400 IC each.

I just had a look at WWW3 ( 2:10) where Jacob changed the Industry law to WarEconomy and one of the prerequisites was "fascist", so it could be enacted in ´36 for germany for example.

So further assuming Germany would keep 15 CF for building projects and convert 11 ( of its 26 free CF with the above mentioned laws ) then you would need a mere 59 days to convert all of the 11 CFs to MF........Uh, gamey ( But trade would be nonexistant ofc )

 

[shri]

Don't worry, within 3 months of the game being released - a "Blue Emu guide" on Factories (substitute any other name for Blue Emu if necessary) will come out and tell us all the loopholes of the HOI4 factory system.

 

[Axe99]

Interesting thread Denkt . It definitely looks like we'll need to make choices about how much production we want now as opposed to later, and that it'll be a tiny bit trickier to work out than in HoI3 at least. I wonder if a 'third way', of keeping a 'stock' of civilian factories continuing to build military factories, dockyards, forts and the like could be viable (we'll presumably need some spare civilian factories about for repairing damage and the like, when not building stuff), supporting a steadier, gradual expansion in production?

 

[Katarian]

I just had a look at WWW3 ( 2:10) where Jacob changed the Industry law to WarEconomy and one of the prerequisites was "fascist", so it could be enacted in ´36 for germany for example.

I highly doubt that is possible or will be for very long. It would be absurd for Germany, or anyone, to immediately, or only have to wait to gain enough PP, switch to War Economy in 1936. Surely the very first requirement to switch to War Economy should be you have to be at war.

Edit: Also given how important Civilian Factories are it wouldn't be a good idea to switch to War Economy early and make them even more expensive. Ideally you would want to build all the Civilian factories you think you are going to need before the war starts using Civilian Economy to make them as cheap as possible.

 

[Secret Master]

I wonder if a 'third way', of keeping a 'stock' of civilian factories continuing to build military factories, dockyards, forts and the like could be viable (we'll presumably need some spare civilian factories about for repairing damage and the like, when not building stuff), supporting a steadier, gradual expansion in production?

I was thinking something similar until 1942 or 1943 as the US. Those extra military factories would be cost effective by 46 or 47 (depending on tech and bonuses), making them useful for a late game Unthinkable against the Soviets.

Can we lend-lease civilian factories to our allies to help them rebuild from strategic bombing? I was also thinking of propping up the British by helping them fix damage done by the Luftwaffe during the Battle of Britain. Sure, they will want more planes, but helping them rebuild from damage might have longer benefits in the long run if you think the war (or another war) is going to drag on past 1945.

Might as well get the Marshal Plan going early.

The answer to your question is in the OP

------------------------------------
Military and civilian factories can also be converted to the other type of factory:

• Civilian to military 2000
• Military to civilian 4000

------------------------------------

Yes, but that doesn't tell me how long I can expect it to take with 15 factories tasked to a single conversion since I am not clear on how tech and/or ministers affects these computations. I figure Denkt or Axe99 might be able to further explain it for me.