Factions from works of fiction and how they fit into Stellaris

[Rubidium]

From the Lensmen series:

Civilization:
Xenophilic 2 (it's made quite clear that all species are viewed as equal, even when they can't understand each others' ways)
Individualist 1 (or possibly spiritual, depending on how you see the Lens)

Government would be some sort of Oligarchy, as they seem to be de facto ruled by the Lensmen. They could either go with a theocratic oligarchy or a technocratic one, again depending on how you view the Lens.

Boskonia
Xenophilic 1 (the Boskonians are equal opportunity villains, again with no problem with e.g. Onlonians working with Thalians, but the Eddorians do have some biological preferences)
Materialist 2 (Eddore's focus is explicitly contrasted with the more philosophical Arisians; at the same time, they are clearly ahead technologically until the middle of Grey Lensmen. And their ranking system is strictly based on murdering your superior to prove your fitness to rule, with things like loyalty or empathy considered weaknesses)

Government: Either a dictatorship or a fairly repressive oligarchy, depending on how you want to model their hierarchical structure.

 

[Aegrim]

United Federation of Planets: materialist

Aren't they the very opposite of materialist?

 

[EddieTheLion]

Aren't they the very opposite of materialist?

They were mostly atheistic/scientific, atleast as portrayed later on in the series.

 

[Finnway]

From what I understand spiritualist doesn't literally mean spiritualist. It can mean ideals. And the tau are very spiritualist in terms of the Greater Good philosophy, with a caste system representing biologically and spiritually where you fall. The Ethereals are the so to speak "priests" and political leaders of the greater good, and their government is led by them in the name of the Greater Good.

Though I do agree with the Collectivist.

Yeah... but if you analyze the Greater Good from a doctrinal perspective it is better represented by Collectivism rather than by Spiritualist. And if Spiritualist merely represents idealistic societies then even an atheist society could be considered Spiritualist if their goal is to spread atheism to other species. I think it's fine to represent the Greater Good with x2 collectivist and leave Spiritualist alone.

Plus, Paradox has not been very imaginative with the bonuses Ethics give (you can read them on the wiki: http://www.stellariswiki.com/Ethos ). I wouldn't be surprised if Materialism - Spiritualist was something as simple as +30% Leader Experience -10% Technology Progress, +30% Technology Progress -10% Leader Experience. And I think the Tau would be neutral on that scale.

And keep in mind, lore doesn't have the tau as tolerant as most people tend to believe. The misconception comes from the fact that they are the *most* tolerant of the *alternatives*. Neutral fits them well in that regard.

I haven't read that much 40K lore, so I can't really counter argue. All I can say is that the fact that large portions the Tau's military is made up of other species seems to make Xenophile's -10 Xenophobia appropriate (keep in mind Ethics represent POPs, not just the government). And while the -Alien Slavery Tolerance doesn't suit their society well, it's balanced out by the +Slavery Tolerance bonus from Collectivist.

 

[Arkangilos]

Well Finnway, I did say I agree with the collectivist placement of yours, so there is that!

 

[BPM]

I Have always loved the idea of the Conjoiners in Alistair Reynolds series 'Revelation Space' Universe!

For Stellaris this would be something like:

Collectivist x2 with everyone living with implants and modifications so that everyone is constant communication with everyone else called the 'Transenlightenment'
Materialistic x1 due the very high-tech nature of their existence

On the subject of Revelation space, a random minor or fallen species could be the Pattern jugglers who can completely remodel the genetics/brain function of any who are exposed to them!

On a serious note, if you have never read any of Alistair Reynolds' work, you should really take a deep deep look at yourself and really change that

 

[Teleros]

Civilization:
Xenophilic 2 (it's made quite clear that all species are viewed as equal, even when they can't understand each others' ways)
Individualist 1 (or possibly spiritual, depending on how you see the Lens)

Government would be some sort of Oligarchy, as they seem to be de facto ruled by the Lensmen. They could either go with a theocratic oligarchy or a technocratic one, again depending on how you view the Lens.

Hmm... part of the problem is that the Lens is a real curveball when it comes to government types etc, and most of what we see is secret agent / military stuff in the books.

I'd be tempted to go for Fanatical Individualists (2) given the economy (top income tax band during the war is something like 3.5%, and all those virtually-unpoliced asteroid mining stations exist etc). If all Xenophilia does is reduce xenophobia and make you hate slavery more, then actually Xenophilia (1) makes more sense - Kinnison didn't go about demanding all male Lyranians be freed for example.

Of the other ethos... they're probably militaristic given the apparent lack of war weariness and such. I'd say neither spiritualist nor materialist though.

Government... hmm. The Galactic Council is composed only of Lensmen, but I think they appoint / elect a President, so they seem to have a Parliamentary structure, and maybe a unicameral one at that too. I think then that the democratic governments would have too many voters, so... Military Junta or Spiritual Oligarchy is probably the closest thing in game.

Boskonia
Xenophilic 1 (the Boskonians are equal opportunity villains, again with no problem with e.g. Onlonians working with Thalians, but the Eddorians do have some biological preferences)
Materialist 2 (Eddore's focus is explicitly contrasted with the more philosophical Arisians; at the same time, they are clearly ahead technologically until the middle of Grey Lensmen. And their ranking system is strictly based on murdering your superior to prove your fitness to rule, with things like loyalty or empathy considered weaknesses)

Government: Either a dictatorship or a fairly repressive oligarchy, depending on how you want to model their hierarchical structure.

Xenophilia (1) makes sense, as does some level of Materialism. I'd probably go for Materialism (1) until we know more about what bonuses it actually gives.

What else... I think you can make a good case for Military Fanaticism (2), but I'm not sure if they'd appear on the Collectivist / Individualist scale - I suspect they just use whatever works under the circumstances. Their drug trade is obviously collectivist, but that's basically government policy... uhm, maybe (see Menjo Bleeko) you could say Collectivist (1) on the basis that you have to pay protection money or w/e to the guy above you in the Sorting Algorithm of Evil...?

Government could be a Despotic Empire or Military Dictatorship (if you can have immortal rulers), otherwise you want the Divine Mandate to represent the wishes of the immortal All-Highest of Eddore.



Really though, I think the Lensman series merits a mod or two. Think about having two (!) galaxies teeming with one-planet minors that you can bloodlessly annex after 10 minutes of diplomacy as Civilisation - I can't see Paradox adding that kind of soft power into the game. You'd probably also want to add in Lensman pops (promoted from officer pops, never demoted, never emigrate, ALWAYS support certain policies?) for a Lens-ocracy or something. Then there'd be the changes required for the FTL mechanisms, weapon tech changes...

+ + +

Yeah... but if you analyze the Greater Good from a doctrinal perspective it is better represented by Collectivism rather than by Spiritualist. And if Spiritualist merely represents idealistic societies then even an atheist society could be considered Spiritualist if their goal is to spread atheism to other species. I think it's fine to represent the Greater Good with x2 collectivist and leave Spiritualist alone.

Meh, I think they could use the Spiritualist bit myself. Put it this way: you can be in a collectivist society that doesn't preach collectivism. If it does the latter, then it could be considered (in game terms at least) Spiritualist. And in terms of Materialism vs Spiritualism, I think the strong beliefs the Tau have about the Greater Good is more important than material wellbeing to them.

 

[SharpFish]

Aren't they the very opposite of materialist?

There are two uses of "materialist" that cause this confusion. One basically means "money-grubbing and hedonistic", loosely. The other means "scientific and un-supernatural". The Federation would not be the first, but would be the second.

 

[zukodark]

There are two uses of "materialist" that cause this confusion. One basically means "money-grubbing and hedonistic", loosely. The other means "scientific and un-supernatural". The Federation would not be the first, but would be the second.

I think the second one is what the game is going for, seeing as it is in opposition to spiritualist. A spiritual nation can be as money-grubbing.

 

[Aegrim]

There are two uses of "materialist" that cause this confusion. One basically means "money-grubbing and hedonistic", loosely. The other means "scientific and un-supernatural". The Federation would not be the first, but would be the second.

Yeah you're right, and being opposite spiritualist hints at one but doesn't really confirm it. Will have to see what the bonus is to help decern.

 

[Aegrim]

I think the second one is what the game is going for, seeing as it is in opposition to spiritualist. A spiritual nation can be as money-grubbing.

Yeah but can also mean pleasures in the afterlife, vs wanting possessions. Keeps reminding me of that ep where they find the probe full of frozen humans and one is a wealthy business man who talks with Picard. On phone so will struggle to find a video.

Edit - found it I think.

 

[zukodark]

I'd prefer the ability to have the option to make a highly irreligious community, as I see the middle ground between materialism and spiritualism as a race where spiritualism is present, but not too big part of the community. I think it is more likely that trade is something you can focus more or less on no matter what ethos you take. But who knows?

 

[Safehold]

I would probably find it more fun to see how a culture changes, what kind of factors make it question itself or change/improve itself, rather than why it started the way it did. There's only so much story that can go into explaining this 0, +1 +2 -1 -2 stuff.

 

[Aegrim]

I would probably find it more fun to see how a culture changes, what kind of factors make it question itself or change/improve itself, rather than why it started the way it did. There's only so much story that can go into explaining this 0, +1 +2 -1 -2 stuff.

That's hopefully something that happens during gameplay.

 

[SolarGuy]

I would probably find it more fun to see how a culture changes, what kind of factors make it question itself or change/improve itself, rather than why it started the way it did. There's only so much story that can go into explaining this 0, +1 +2 -1 -2 stuff.

It would be interesting to have some sort of timeline that shows how the culture evolved. As Stellaris games can go on infinitely (two days, or two millenia,...) it would be interesting to see such a shift over time.
I can imagine such factors to be
The environment: How hostile is it? Enough resources for everyone, or fighting for every asteroid? When was the first contact established, and with what kind of species?
The history: Again, when and who did they make contact with? Were there any wars or other disasters? Were they divided at some point in history (mentally or physically)?
The technology: Did any tech advancements change their thoughts (A.I. development, genetic manipulation, transhumanism,...)?
And a huge amount of other stuff that has influence on my culture ^^

 

[Vanhal]

The Tau Empire would be fun a fun race to play in Stellaris.
Phenotype = Mammalian.
Ethics = X2 Collectivist, x1 Xenophile.

Not wanting to exterminate aliens on sight is seen as xenophile now? Sad, sad times.

Edit: Hell, what i am saying...

 

[Safehold]

It would be interesting to have some sort of timeline that shows how the culture evolved. As Stellaris games can go on infinitely (two days, or two millenia,...) it would be interesting to see such a shift over time.
I can imagine such factors to be
The environment: How hostile is it? Enough resources for everyone, or fighting for every asteroid? When was the first contact established, and with what kind of species?
The history: Again, when and who did they make contact with? Were there any wars or other disasters? Were they divided at some point in history (mentally or physically)?
The technology: Did any tech advancements change their thoughts (A.I. development, genetic manipulation, transhumanism,...)?
And a huge amount of other stuff that has influence on my culture ^^

The devs did say something about how each species would have a backstory, that would be researched via further unlocking techs and exploration anomalies, even in the home system. As a game mechanic I approve, rather than some flavor text in a chronicle. Flavor text can also be good, but hard to keep it fresh with their random species generator.

That's hopefully something that happens during gameplay.

When I was playing CK2, the Umayyaids had managed to expand to half of France before 1000 AD. So when the crusades kicked off in 900 AD, I decided to help the Pope's side, even though I couldn't join his war, by raiding the Spanish muslim empire and then joining in a huge decisive battle, to turn the tide.

Unfortunately, my demesne troops took several weeks to get there, and the battle was already starting by the time my troops had unloaded 1-2 provinces away. But the Crusaders held the line, at 30% morale, for several days until I was able to join them and ultimately rout the Muslims. I really thought they would have been annihilated by the time melee had been joined, but they held on, and then I smashed into the back line of the enemy.

They still took 5+ years to fully occupy the Kingdom of Aquitane, but it was a done deal at that point, the first decisive battle took out Spain's 20k plus levies, reducing it to barely above 3k. Also the Abbasids landed about 10k troops, like twice, but without the Spanish forces joining with them, they were also dead.

That was pretty fun, I thought, in emergent gameplay. I expect Paradox in Stellaris, to be able to produce some similar emotions.

As for ethos drift, I do expect Paradox to be able to put some fun game play mechanics there for intrigue or power or civ research/development. I am looking forward to how they write the histories of these new species, randomly generated or not. For history, of course, when they were limited to it, they didn't need to write about the stories. They were already written, so to speak. They have this freedom from it now, so I was wondering where they were going to take this. Would it look like other primitive societies developing into tech power (on this Earth), that these alien cultures have undergone? Or would it be so strange, that not even the Deathstalker series would compare...

 

[SolarGuy]

The devs did say something about how each species would have a backstory, that would be researched via further unlocking techs and exploration anomalies, even in the home system. As a game mechanic I approve, rather than some flavor text in a chronicle. Flavor text can also be good, but hard to keep it fresh with their random species generator.

I actually meant the story that would build itself up because of my decisions. Like wars I started, contracts I broke, techs I developed, and similar things.
About what you said about anomalies: Do they also include ruined colonies with cities, or even descendants of what my species was a few thousand years ago?

 

[FirstCitizen80]

The Klingon Empire:

1 Individualist, 1 Spiritualist, 1 Militarist

 

[Safehold]

I actually meant the story that would build itself up because of my decisions. Like wars I started, contracts I broke, techs I developed, and similar things.
About what you said about anomalies: Do they also include ruined colonies with cities, or even descendants of what my species was a few thousand years ago?

They haven't released details about what kind of anomalies, except those screenshots about meeting alien species as weird stuff happening around planets, gas giants, etc.

Judging by the various vague hints the devs have implied in their dev posts, a potential species backstory might be that you are the descendants of a superior or elder species in the galaxy, now having forgotten your roots but you rediscover them and where you came from as you tech up and anomalies which you never saw before, now you can see and research. Scripted precursors/potentials/triggers, etc.

By anomaly, I mean the same thing your scientist has to explore to level up and get better traits for better tech (or more dangerous tech) on the various planets, moons, etc in a solar system. In a normal 4x game made by others, though, they would just hand out these resources like cup cakes, once you eat them, they don't exist any more. But from various hints or statements they have made, there will also be anomalies in your home system which you cannot research until your tech is at a certain level or you trigger something. And those anomalies might have something to do with your species backstory, which is generated for every species.

Judging by the first contact events, things are pretty vague on purpose, to prevent the player from "gaming" information like seeing graphs or names of alien civilizations. It could be a minor race, an extinct species, or an "Involved" species that is technologically comparable and space faring. Meaning, a competitor, which is far more serious than some minor bronze age tech barbarian species stuck on a planet. But you won't know until you do further research, which takes time. It could be important or not.

That's a different atmosphere than other 4x games, where you kind of know when you've encountered an enemy or competitor. They do things the same way you would, sending scout units out. They have tech and abilities similar to yours. You know your own species and its capabilities and can now project it unto your competitor, removing a lot of the darkness and unknowable risks inherent with encountering the strange. Stellaris sounds more like Alien Legacy, in which you stumble across events, but have no idea what the consequences are, good or negative. And the negatives are really dangerous, can wipe out your entire system.