Factions are too powerful

[JohnKR]

Come on its not so difficult. Actually is not difficult at all. Its easier than before, at least is more interesting and now someone does not makes a rebellion with only one county cause he is pissed off by you but he tries to gather others against you. Now we get less rebellions that were just a distraction and we have a few interesting big civili wars. The old system was irrational and boring, and it wasnt easier that that now. Also before making such a statement first criticise yourself and your way of play. By the way im not a hardcore player i am a casual player who enjoies a good story telling game and not an other total war (i play a lot of total war too but they are different games and actually in my opinion CK2 is more casual and relaxing than total war)

 

[grancheater]

I haven't really had issues with factions, though a big succession is about to occur next time my char dies, so perhaps they'll become more relevant then. Simply dispensing gold and honorary titles seems to take care of most vassals, I think the only ones I currently have with <+80 have the foreigner or false religion malus.

The one thing I don't understand is the decision to have +80 relations the threshold for not joining a faction, seriously? you're telling me that I have to have almost perfect relations with all my vassals or they will start banding together to overthrow me? The threshold should be 0 or +20 something around that range

+80 seems to be the treshold for not creating a faction. I've never seen vassals with 80+ relationships create factions, but I currently have a king with which I have +100 backing some count's independence faction.

 

[fiallach]

Factions are AWESOME. They make managing a huge empire actually challenging, and really hard if your ruler isn't up to the task in terms of traits ( yeah, my slow dwarf emperor had to roll back a crown authority before finally dying, and spent half his life fihting huge armies trying to break free. Tons of fun).


However, the system needs improvments. First, rebels don't work together enough. Actually, same goes with any allied nations. Fix that.
Then, make the dukes smarter in choosing the faction they support. One of my brothers ( my beloved twin, who received a duchy cause i liked him a lot ) strated plotted to put my other brother on the throne instead of me, even if he liked me better. Improve that.

80 might be a little too much for preventing vassals to join a faction, i don't know.


But this system carries the seed of a true fun political game.

 

[Hootieleece]

I think i have said it before.....in this thread.The reaction against Factions is mostly from peoples style of play has been nerfed by the change.(Blobbing tyrants wanting to paint map their color)I'm playing a HRE Game to watch the Faction System in Action.Started as Count of Aargau.The factions and their Independence Wars have been going off like clock work, but the presence of factions delayed the coming of Medium CA until 1145.Giving me plenty of time to Usurp the Duchy of Upper Burgundy and claim its De Jure territory.(Got caught with Gavelkind Inheritance by an untimely death......I have remedied it)

The AI is having NO problem with imprisoning and Revoking titles.(being leader of a faction is like having a plot,Liege can Imprison you)As a liege you WANT your imprisonment attempts to fail on Faction leaders...because it just like the Small revolts in past....and you get a free title revoke.

Breeding for Diplomacy,Stewardship,and Martial is almost more important tha marrying for Claims.........

I usually marry for stats with my Chosen/Eldest heir, but I plan on marrying for intrigue skill and placing Mothers in Spymaster slots.Make sure I make my wives my lover..

Also new system puts a premium on High Skill(15+) Chancellors and Spymasters because you need high ability to get good chance of the events happening.

 

[cwg9]

They are not too powerful. The AI could use some work to make it better at joining and leaving a faction and figuring out when to declare a faction war. I really like the mechanic, it's about the only thing with the potential to really give pause to the big empires that are steamrolling. Even so, currently the AI doesn't seem to join the factions much, so it's barely a speed bump. Except perhaps when you get a really unliked monarch, that seems to be the trigger for decisions to join or leave factions I think.

 

[krauser13]

you have to learn to control it and it will be funny no rebel empire

 

[unmerged(514157)]

I looked in 00_Factions.txt which governs the creation and joining of factions. Distance is a factor, as are traits, but the main point of discussion above - opinion - is something that can be changed, as there are modifiers that relate to different opinion thresholds. The basic threshold below which someone creates an independence faction appears to be 40, while the joining threshold also appears to be 40. I say appears because I'm not confident in my ability to read the code to say for sure. Plus, there are other modifiers that come into play.

 

[Captain Frye]

Did you figure out how to switch off those insane free levies they get when they make an uprising?

 

[Vishaing]

The Free Soldiers are from the plot_events.txt file, somewhere.

As for Opinion, for Independence; Vassals will not start the faction if they are above 60, however will continue leading the faction unless you get them above 80. That said they are half as likely to form it if they are above 40.

For Joining they cannot join if they are above 60... unless coerced into joining. And that's probably where you are getting most of your members that are high opinion, because you can be coerced into joining simply for not being the ai. Oh yeah, players, its impossible for you to be coerced, congratulations.
Also, and Stupidly, if the character has any of the traits; homosexual, impaler, lustful, drunkard, hedonist or syphilitic, you cannot refuse when they try to blackmail you.

 

[unmerged(514157)]

Did you figure out how to switch off those insane free levies they get when they make an uprising?

Vishaing is right. Search for "rebels" in plot_events.txt and you can turn the chance down to 0 (or whatever you want.)

If you want to just reduce the number of free levies they get, I think that you can adjust the multipliers in the civil_war_events.txt file under the "spawn_unit" sections. (Haven't had another one of these trigger during a revolt, so I can't say for certain that it worked.)

 

[Julyan]

I don't see what the problem is. So you just got a huge independence revolt and lost half of your empire or another claimant stole your throne, so what? The game lasts 400 years, more than enough time to conquer the world, lose it and conquer it again. In my opinion, setbacks make the game more interesting. If I wanted to play a strategy game where things will always go my way, I'd play Total War.

 

[siis]

you have to learn to control it and it will be funny no rebel empire

I would love to read your detailed guide about managing factions in a huge realm.

 

[Hootieleece]

Just use the Chancellor and Spymaster Tag team on the faction leader.If his opinion of you goes above 80, he disbands the faction.The Chancellor improves relations by +40 add some gold, maybe a honorary title.Problem fixed.

Spymaster generates an event with 4 options......If target has bad traits(i.e. Drunkard,lustful,homosexual, etc.) pick the Blackmail option and target will leave faction.

With factions in place......High Diplo Rulers are Priceless!

If you have a terrible ruler(low stats and/or bad traits) your screwed.......some faction rebellion WILL happen!

 

[Kiithis]

The Factions are not very hard to beat, but you will notice that when they REALLY hate you (if your a tyrant for example) you will see way more than usual join. Just put your spy master on the biggest vassal in your realm and get the ones that are in the faction to a higher opinion and they will leave it. That or slowly put your family in charge of everything.

 

[Yxklyx]

80 is just fine for the Opinion level. I don't think Scheme is all too great against Independence factions (except as a last resort) since you want to deal with them as fast as possible as they can trigger at any time it seems. Leaving your Marshall unemployed might be a good idea so that you can Imprison someone when you need to. Use the Councillor to improve relations before someone joins a faction.

With Factions and the change to revolt chance when Imprisoning I find that it's much harder to tidy up your empire. In the past I would let someone revolt (or Imprison), then revoke and reorganize the empire. I don't let factions revolt now if I can help it - though perhaps I should...

 

[I am.]

Factions are not overpowered... They make the game much more interesting... Otherwise I was bored with external conflicts only. AND once you crush major rebellions, your vassals get a very nice relationship bonus, as you are a capable comander... If you spare those that revolted, you get an additional relationship boost with them also. (after defeatg a Jihad for Egypt (around 1084 - no reloads, no cheats, took alexandria and Diamettia from Fatimids during civil wars, first a duke revolts due to failed imprisonment... then a faction to install a new prince pops up... then the faction for independance... group your forces - take them out one by one, and voala... all revolts crushed... a bunch of people imprisoned, demoted, castrated, blinded... order in realm restored... I was near defeat at one point, the independance faction was chasing my 8.5k army with their 9k stack, but managed to pull additional 1k troops from a siege and defeated them also... it was close, but fun
Unsure if it is a bug, but castrating people should make them unable to hold any office... I castrated the Duke of Crete, and guess what - he is still the duke, but now he hates my guts (-50 for imprisonment, -80for castrating) I thought he was supposed to be unable to lead... Blinding seems to work similarly - they are still in charge?

 

[Hootieleece]

I think castrating and blinding only bar them from being Basileus of Byzantine Empire.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

I love the faction system.

I didn't realize what a big change it was until I had a massive world-spanning empire. But at that point, factions are truly scary. Which is fantastic. I don't go around revoking titles to clean up duchies the way I used to.

The key is not to let the problem start. Don't have vassals who hate you. Or even sort of dislike you. Those who do will revolt. Which can be good, as it's a lot of free revokes and a nice crushed rebellion bonus for everyone else.

Bribes, the chancellor, and the spymaster are really just very important bandaids now. They can't solve a massive rebellion that's brewing. If things are that bad, it's going to happen. But they can make sure the biggest and most important vassals that you don't want to join stay out of it. Use them to isolate the people you need to keep happy. And if you have a lot of others folks who still hate you, get ready to fight.

It makes a massive empire fun. There was no challenge before. It was just stomping nation after nation. Now you get scared sometimes. Which is great.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

For Joining they cannot join if they are above 60... unless coerced into joining. And that's probably where you are getting most of your members that are high opinion, because you can be coerced into joining simply for not being the ai. Oh yeah, players, its impossible for you to be coerced, congratulations.
Also, and Stupidly, if the character has any of the traits; homosexual, impaler, lustful, drunkard, hedonist or syphilitic, you cannot refuse when they try to blackmail you.

Is this why if I have a less than sterling rep <80 with a vassal the vote for a homosexual female as the new heir? Talking game here, is the AI that "smart" to weaken you? Last time I had a female was before the patch otherwise I wouldn't mind (and may need to) again.

 

[Frozen_Predator]

I noticed that the muslim AI can't handle factions now, currently on my third LoR game, and the muslims just seem to fold constantly. right now I have HRE and Castille in North Africa and France in the holy land and Iberia is just one big mess of mostly Castille and France.

and all because of factions splitting their realm and then getting eaten by others.

though perhaps the problem lies with the holy war casus belli