Factions are too powerful
- Thread starter Sam L
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I think not.
I played as a vassal of Byz for 100 years, and there was only 2 civil wars.
They didn't even revolt against imbecile (!) emperor...
But it still require some fixes, sometimes vassals change factions to fast or join to them without sense.
I played as a vassal of Byz for 100 years, and there was only 2 civil wars.
They didn't even revolt against imbecile (!) emperor...
But it still require some fixes, sometimes vassals change factions to fast or join to them without sense.
I certainly think that factions could do with some refinement, but I don't think they're too powerful. I've seen more unsuccessful faction wars than successful ones, especially when you've got an awesome ruler on the throne.
The one thing I'd say is that the faction interaction with existing game-mechanics needs re-working. I got myself into a situation where a faction was created to put Alexios Komnenos (me) on the throne. Naturally, I joined them, and once we had enough power, the AI leader declared war. At which point I was booted out of the faction and was fighting on the side of the Basileus, against my claim to the throne. :blink:
I believe it was because I'd betrothed my son to the Basileus' daughter, and you can't declare war against someone if you have a betrothal with a close relative. So refinement of this would be good.
And more factions for more outcomes would also be nice.
The one thing I'd say is that the faction interaction with existing game-mechanics needs re-working. I got myself into a situation where a faction was created to put Alexios Komnenos (me) on the throne. Naturally, I joined them, and once we had enough power, the AI leader declared war. At which point I was booted out of the faction and was fighting on the side of the Basileus, against my claim to the throne. :blink:
I believe it was because I'd betrothed my son to the Basileus' daughter, and you can't declare war against someone if you have a betrothal with a close relative. So refinement of this would be good.
And more factions for more outcomes would also be nice.
They are not overpowered. They are just irrational, as the vassals don't act in their own interests but act just to piss off their liege.
I played a little a count of Foix game (started in 1.06) and some dudes in Burgundy wanted me as their liege. I could do nothing about it because of the crown authority, but it made somewhat sense since I had a (weak) claim on this place. They always failed. At some point, a massive civil war broke in spanish France and I though they were going to win, but no. This is fine with me. Also, the ERE seems to be too strong, especially in the west (in which they historically did almost nothing). What I would like about factions would be to have the ability to have "positive" factions like increasing the crown authority (but it is my bad that I switched to gavelkind). The condition to change the succession law or increase CA still seems, not too harsh, but too arbitrary.
Yet, about factions, they seems to work fine for me right now, but I will return here if I see some oddity only the AI can make.
Yet, about factions, they seems to work fine for me right now, but I will return here if I see some oddity only the AI can make.
This, the system itself is fine, the AI just needs to make realistic choices instead of joining factions and leaving them and joining another in within a couple of seconds.
While they're easier to succeed, there's still nothing stopping the HRE and his heir (by example) from just taking all the land back afterwards since he gets strong claims on everything!
You speak truth and I've been marvelously entertained as a result...nevermind it may throw having an excellent leader out the window.
A dedicated coalition for indepence is far better than the whack-a-mole 20 independence wars.
This applies to anyone in the faction:
1. Get their opinion up to 80.
2. Give them to another vassal so that he or she is not your direct vassal - only direct vassals can be in factions against you.
3. Assassinate - Use your Spymaster to improve Assassinations or start a Plot.
4. Imprison. Use your Marshall to improve Imprison chance. To avoid Tyranny use Excommunication or you might be lucky and they have a plot against you and can be imprisoned without Tyranny.
5. You can use the Spymaster to Scheme (1st button) against a noble in his capital - after a period of time you will get a pop-up with 4 options - this should remove them from the faction.
6. Start a plot to revoke one of their counties/duchies. They will usually revolt and you will have to fight him/her but on his own. Then you can imprison.
Note that plots can now be cancelled without the time penalty - so if you start one and don't like the odds you can cancel it and start another.
Killing the faction leader will just make someone else in the faction the leader.
Ok using this strategy, it avoids factions. Which makes it too easy to avoid them. BUT also doesn't get rid of the problem of them getting free soldiers. Although, I can see why they've done that.
I can learn to live with it but I still think it needs fine tuning. There needs to be better reasoning behind these factions.
I dunno, factions seem pretty effective at messing up blob-heavy nations. HRE in my game just had a half-dozen duchies of various sizes successfully go independant. Part of why it worked is that HRE was in two other major wars at the same time... Factions can seriously open you up to a world of hurt from the outside.
This. Dukes of Bavaria and Franconia shouldn't create factions to lower Crown Authority in Sicily or Navarra, at least not if they have positive opinion of their liege.
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The free soldiers stuff is far too OP atm. I was playing in Mali, and managed, after much skin-of-my-teeth gameplay, to rise from a count to forming the kingdom in 3 generations. A few years in, an independence faction starts with 2 members (my only 2 vassals), their power is ~10%. I could raise just over 4k levies not including the factions, plus after shifting my capital had access to 4800 mercs, for a combined army of 9k. The faction revolts and they raise 800 levies in 2 stacks, ok this is no problem. Suddenly I get the message of 'rabbles' joining their cause and they get 2 stacks of 5k, damn better buy some mercs (oh crap the Almoravids have hired them), then the Almoravids DoW with 16k+ and call in everyone and his dog. I lose the lot, game over.
I don't think an arbitary amount of levies should be given, it needs to be scaled in a reasonable way to what the faction can already raise, definitely no more than double, if that. In my example above it would appear reasonable for the faction to get 1600 on top of their 800, these are provinces with one or two slots in them and hardly any upgrades.
It works okay at keeping the HRE, France etc under control, but for smaller kingdoms it just kills them off.
I don't think an arbitary amount of levies should be given, it needs to be scaled in a reasonable way to what the faction can already raise, definitely no more than double, if that. In my example above it would appear reasonable for the faction to get 1600 on top of their 800, these are provinces with one or two slots in them and hardly any upgrades.
It works okay at keeping the HRE, France etc under control, but for smaller kingdoms it just kills them off.
Requiring a flat 80 opinion to avoid revolts is too high (and expensive .) The old system took distance and other factors into account. I don't mind factions, but you shouldn't have to keep everyone at 80 to avoid them. 50 or 60, maybe, or better yet, something that takes distance, levy depletion, and other rational factors into account.
Brittany revolted in my France game. It had just 2 provinces and as far as I could tell, those 2 provinces' counts were the only ones involved. Yet they were able to field an army of 20k. I couldn't even get that amount of troops if I raised everything in the Kingdom (my levies+realm levies+retinue). These don't seem like your regular peasant stacks either that you can walk all over. I had to hire mercs and go for broke. Seemed a bit strange that they wound up with such a big army.
traits should also be taken into account, I think a cruel or arbitrary liege should suffer more factions even at good relations.
but I will say that 80 is just too damn high. I'm thinking of setting it at 65 or 70.
The whole faction system is beyond retarded, it's essentially just a plot which you know about but can't do anything to stop it (besides assassinations, bribing and excommunicating/imprisoning)
I've just spent 10 years fighting an independence war against my vassals, and within 5 years i'm fighting another one, is there a way to turn this off?
EDIT: and one of the vassels i've just discovered who rebelled against me had a +100 opinion of me, did this seriously go through testing?
I've just spent 10 years fighting an independence war against my vassals, and within 5 years i'm fighting another one, is there a way to turn this off?
EDIT: and one of the vassels i've just discovered who rebelled against me had a +100 opinion of me, did this seriously go through testing?