• We will be taking the forums down for scheduled maintenance on Tuesday, May 22nd 2023 at around 8:00 CDT / 13:00 UTC for up to an hour hour.
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Vantablight

Sergeant
96 Badges
Jan 4, 2017
82
99
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Impire
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Ancient Space
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
The following suggestions are explicitly directed towards reducing mid-late game tedium.

1. Factions and the Coffers

I've run dozens of ironman games and the winning strategy seems always the same towards dealing with internal stability.

1. Stack bonuses that make your vassals like you more
2. Horde enough money for mercenaries
3. Wait until a sufficiently large number inevitably decide to hate you because XYZ reasons (desires duchy, desires kingdom, ambitious, etc).
4. I will not be blackmailed!
5. Double the size of your army by hiring mercenaries
6. Crush the revolt and shuffle around all their titles to people who like you better through revocations

OR, in between the faction wars:

1. Wait until they are caught plotting something
2. Imprison (preferably with low chance of catching them)
3. To arms!
4. Steal the titles from the traitor when they're in my dungeon, shuffle to people who like you better

AND, throughout: Keep an increasing number of vassals safe in my dungeons.

Even if you aren't a tyrant in any meaningful sense there comes a point in the sheer size of your empire that this cycle repeats itself over and over and becomes extremely gratuitous. I've had a game where I had half of Europe in my pocket but spent every 10 years fighting a faction war that I would inevitably win anyways- because mercenaries.

I think this could be solved through a variety of methods, but one that would be very easy to implement, be straightforward in it's in-game logic, and realistic in terms of historical foundations would be to have faction leaders take into account not only the levy size but also the wealth of their liege compared to the wealth of those in the faction. This would allow AIs to account for the three mercenary bands their liege may pull out of thin air- to discern that if a liege is obscenely wealthy they make a harder target than one that is close to broke.

I could be wrong but right now as far as I can tell the factions fire based on the character of the faction leader and the ratio of faction to liege levies.

Accounting for allies/tributaries may make the AI feel smarter in this regard as well.

2. Hostages

Having the family members of one's vassals within one's control was as far as I know an extremely common tool of medieval politics. In this sense CK2 seems entirely lacking. I could have every relative of a vassal in my prison, ready to be executed upon my whim, and as far as I know this would have no bearing on their willingness to take arms against me. What's up with that?

Firmly requesting that the sons of a vassal train as a squire/page in my court and thus putting them in my court under a form of quasi-house arrest, or even outright throwing them in my dungeons should definitely be a prime means of maintaining the subservience, if not loyalty, of my vassals. Particularly with consideration to whether or not they will start or join a faction. Only the most fanatical would risk the lives of their sons or daughters for a rebellion.

Furthermore- the lives of the direct family of rebels should be forfeit, or at least come with a reduced tyranny penalty for executing if they do decide to revolt. Exacting collective dynastic punishment is a common medieval theme.

Implementing this could come in the form of creating a "request hostage" and/or a "take hostage" button that places them in a form of light 'house arrest'- in the court but not allowed to simply leave. Busting hostages out and other mischief should surely follow. Historically hostages often came to the victor in conflicts, so perhaps you could exchange a rebellious vassal in your prison for his sons/daughters as hostages.

Having a small icon that appears in the corner of the portrait of characters that are taken hostage (about the same size as the jail icon on imprisoned children) would let players distinguish which characters in their court are hostages. Including a filter in the character search would be good as well.

I think this feature could also replace the one where you demand a vassal's child is taught to become a part of their lieges cultural group. Instead any child taken hostage could have a large chance of adopting the culture of the court they are held in.

Hostages that inherit a title could pop an event once they are an adult allowing you to either allow them to take leave to their holdings or to imprison them and thus incur tyranny penalties.

3. Fear

I think that if a ruler wins a major faction war and executes all of those involved outright in horrible manners it should create a more lasting impression on the country and be a stronger deterrent than winning a faction war currently is. In Medieval Total War 2 you had a choice between 'dread'- gained through cruel/merciless actions, and 'chivalry'- gained through merciful/just actions. CK2 has traits that are akin to this, but just and kind are by far the best pick for ruling large empires... which is kind of counterintuitive given the common characteristics of the hereditary rulers of titanic empires. Furthermore, gaining these traits are quite the luck of the draw. The only thing traits such as cruel, or impaler, grant you is a morale damage for battle, but I think this fails to represent the more passive effect of the crippling fear a character like Genghis Khan or Ivan the Terrible should inspire.

In this regard I think a minor tweak would do. There should be a temporary revolt risk reduction as there is now to winning a rebellion or uprising, but there should also be a smaller reduction that lasts until the death of the ruler that put down said rebellion/uprising. However I am sure there are countless events and choices one could implement for those that want to be feared rather than loved.

4. Holding Upgrades

I probably should have put this one first. When you're sitting on six or more holdings, upgrading them is one of the most boring exercises in the game. My emotional connection to these holdings usually doesn't extend outside of my primary county. Beyond that it's a numbers game that I know I have to play in order to raise my levy count and income to match the AI. I always choose the same options- walls/ level one, then two castle towns/, then random troop buildings. This formula seems to always work, and it's just a matter of clicking on castle after castle after castle to keep them upgrading until they hit the barriers of the current tech level.

And God is it boring.

Please let us assign this job to the steward. I don't even care if he bungles it up or rips me off from time to time- that would be far preferable to the current status quo.

I would have a pool of money that is similar to the one that the great houses in republics use to fund election campaigns. The steward would then spend the money to upgrade your holdings according to the same strategy the AI would use if it were their own holdings. If they disliked you or were greedy they could skim off the top. If lazy they could be slow about doing it. If incompetent they could squander the money. You could even have an event where they upgrade the building of a town/church/barony under your county on accident. You could have them focus on raising income versus raising levy count, or even focus on investing in hospitals.

By all means allow the player to choose to micromanage their own holdings, because usually that's fun when it's at the scale of 1-4. Beyond that, however, it's nothing but a chore I do so I can keep playing the game.
 
Upvote 0

Coga19000

Sergeant
33 Badges
Sep 8, 2017
73
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
I've been thinking about all of those for SO long. Okay, maybe not the last one, but I would sure as hell welcome that. Paradox, make those happen (or at least point us to a mod that does them.)
 

Tryvenyal

General
36 Badges
Jun 18, 2014
2.335
537
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Over all good suggestions!

4. Holding Upgrades

Here I stopped abit and thought how to solve.

There could be a tick box "automanage" on each holding and a slider for how much gold it should stock before building. Any incomes from this holding is saved in holding account - "local box"(and not in your treasure) If you set the slider to say 150, when the local coffer reaches 150, it will start building the most expensive building it can for that amount. if there are several, it will build the top one in the list sharing topcost.

The gold is not stored in province, ie it can't be looted or lost. It´s just set aside on a "booknig account" you hold for the holding for managing this holding alone. if you untick the box, anything in that box is transferred to your wealth.
Nothing stops you from building in the holding if you would like even when the box is ticked(ofc there cant be a build in progress...). It would go from your wealth and anything in the local "account" remains there.

Raised local levies are paid from your normal wealth.
 

Coga19000

Sergeant
33 Badges
Sep 8, 2017
73
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
Or even better yet; use your own personal wealth as a minimum scale. E.g. if you set the building limit to "4500", the steward will only build buildings automatically when your wealth is over 4500 ducats (with exceptions being made for incompetence, or him actively trying to sabotage you) But seeing as you yourself can play as someone else's steward, there could be an event for you where you could (within set limits) try to con your liege to weaken him.
 

Tryvenyal

General
36 Badges
Jun 18, 2014
2.335
537
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Or even better yet; use your own personal wealth as a minimum scale. E.g. if you set the building limit to "4500", the steward will only build buildings automatically when your wealth is over 4500 ducats (with exceptions being made for incompetence, or him actively trying to sabotage you) But seeing as you yourself can play as someone else's steward, there could be an event for you where you could (within set limits) try to con your liege to weaken him.

This works for 1 holding with one available building to build. Does not help if you have 8 holdings spread across your wide empire. Once he have made up where to build, which of the 7 abvailable buildings in that holding should he build?

My suggestion did not take into account the RP part, as it´s not the Steward managing the buildings(niether as is or with my suggestion).
 

Coga19000

Sergeant
33 Badges
Sep 8, 2017
73
0
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
This works for 1 holding with one available building to build. Does not help if you have 8 holdings spread across your wide empire. Once he have made up where to build, which of the 7 abvailable buildings in that holding should he build?
By the formula the OP suggests: for each holding you could choose either to use the AI upgrading strategy, a levy-heavy strategy, or a gold-heavy strategy.
As for the choice of the holding itself, it is after all a Steward mission- so I would expect it would only upgrade in the county you position him on.
 

Tryvenyal

General
36 Badges
Jun 18, 2014
2.335
537
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
By the formula the OP suggests: for each holding you could choose either to use the AI upgrading strategy, a levy-heavy strategy, or a gold-heavy strategy.
As for the choice of the holding itself, it is after all a Steward mission- so I would expect it would only upgrade in the county you position him on.

No I disagree to this. The golderning part is on his table, the levy part would rather fall on the Marshal. But any way, I would not consider posting any of them in a remote part of my empire to "Develop a province I can't bother to develop myself".

I would love etended events and things involving the councellers in the dayly drift of the realm but not to this. Why would I turn on this feature? It´s just my personal lazyness that requests this feature in the first place :) So lets say I disagree to OP suggestion and suggested another path not involving RP or Steward´s competence. Just aotomating your decision- doing abit.
 
Last edited:

Vantablight

Sergeant
96 Badges
Jan 4, 2017
82
99
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Impire
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler: Cold War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Ancient Space
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
There could be a tick box "automanage" on each holding and a slider for how much gold it should stock before building. Any incomes from this holding is saved in holding account - "local box"(and not in your treasure) If you set the slider to say 150, when the local coffer reaches 150, it will start building the most expensive building it can for that amount. if there are several, it will build the top one in the list sharing topcost.

The gold is not stored in province, ie it can't be looted or lost. It´s just set aside on a "booknig account" you hold for the holding for managing this holding alone. if you untick the box, anything in that box is transferred to your wealth.
Nothing stops you from building in the holding if you would like even when the box is ticked(ofc there cant be a build in progress...). It would go from your wealth and anything in the local "account" remains there.

Raised local levies are paid from your normal wealth.

This is a really interesting approach.
I like it- it gives you control over which locations you are developing so that, for example, you could have some border counties that are under threat not develop while focusing on your core counties. The speed at which your holding develops would be dependent on it's tax revenue- which you can increase by building a castle town or other tax-increasing upgrade.

An issue I see is that when you're a really large empire much of your wealth doesn't actually come from individual holdings, but rather from vassal taxes, tributaries, trade posts, etc, which you could only reinvest by micromanagement. If there were a menu where you could see a list of all the local holding accounts and dump money into it with the click of a button (say a hundred gold per click) then you could solve this.

Finally while holdings themselves wouldn't rise above around 10, the number of trading posts and hospitals you have could cause a lot of clutter if they are each listed individually- so perhaps hospitals/trading posts should be grouped together into a single account?