Faction System:an observation after playing a few games

[Hootieleece]

I know that there are many threads about factions and Faction Wars being broken.

That being said I think the real problem is a matter of scale.The Faction system works fine for a single Kingdom (like England, France etc.)The problems with it begin when one has more than one King title or an Emperor title.

If one has an Emperor title (HRE for example)one is "forced" to create and give out the Kingdom Titles to allow the game mechanics to work correctly.

Basically if your an Emperor do not have any non King level vassals

If one has more than one King title it is more complicated. Vassals of different De Jure Kingdoms can fight each other no matter what the CA states.Because the vassals of the other De Jure Kingdom are "Foreigners".

To get De Jure Drift to work correctly you must Destroy a King title......with massive penalties that often out weigh the benefits of the destroying the title.(at least in the short term)

To Keep a stable Realmo not have vassals of less than one level below your title level. Make sure all your vassals have their De Jure Vassals. DON'T have more than one top tier title.(King/Emperor)

Manpower calculations for Retinues needs to be rebalanced......There is NO reason for any King/Emperor should be able to recruit/Afford 100K standing Armies in 1300.(In my HRE game,in 1300. I had a retinue capacity of 250k with level 2 military organization tech)

 

[Myrten]

Why do you think having duchy level vassals is wrong as empire? Empire composed of Grand Republics and Arch-Bishopric works absolutely fine with this system.

 

[Hootieleece]

Just to many vassals to keep in line with Duchy's under an Empire.That being my experience as both HRE and ERE(separate games)Also I NEVER make just DOGES and Prince ArchBishoprics.....I find it too gamey.(personal preference)

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

how can you make only doges and archibishops? do you somehow change the capital of a county or how?

 

[Hootieleece]

Easiest way is to give County title to a Bishop or Mayor when handing out titles after a successful Crusade or Invasion.It makes the Church or City the Capital Holding of County.After that it is easy to give ducal titles to either.

 

[OrdepNM]

Make sure all your vassals have their De Jure Vassals.(King/Emperor)

This. A thousand times this. Titular kingdoms and duchies may sound like a nice way to have more vassals without breaking the chain of vassalage, but whoever has de jure claims on that county will be the biggest bully on your playground. In my current game as emperor of hispania, Ive made the titular galician and asturian kingdoms, and its been nothing but a headache, with the king of Leon using every ski in the book to get those territories.

 

[Malibu Stacey]

Easiest way is to give County title to a Bishop or Mayor when handing out titles after a successful Crusade or Invasion.It makes the Church or City the Capital Holding of County.After that it is easy to give ducal titles to either.

Can you undo that by giving the country title to the baron or an existing count/duke? In my game the County of Durham is a Prince-Bishopric which I'd like to change just to being a County.

If one has more than one King title it is more complicated. Vassals of different De Jure Kingdoms can fight each other no matter what the CA states.Because the vassals of the other De Jure Kingdom are "Foreigners".

One way around that if you hold multiple kingdoms but not an empire is to not have any duchies (where possible). The counties will all be under your primary kingdom while any duchies will be under their de jure kingdom if you hold it, otherwise they default to your primary kingdom. This isn't always possible when you have de jure duchies which consist of only 2 counties as one of the counts will create the title no matter how many times you revoke it and destroy it but any with 3 or more only become troublesome if someone holds more than one county (usually due to their parents holding 2 separate counties before they inherited them).

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

Easiest way is to give County title to a Bishop or Mayor when handing out titles after a successful Crusade or Invasion.It makes the Church or City the Capital Holding of County.After that it is easy to give ducal titles to either.

oh thanks. For some reason I assumed they would become counts when given a county title. If they do not become counts, dukes etc. and cannot take part in factions as a result, yes, this looks pretty gamey - avoiding the faction system completely.


Anyway, more to the topic. I wonder about destroying kingdom titles - I have 3 and I wont be able to get an empire any time soon. Could this help with factions? various factions emerge in all 3 kingdoms and it has become quite a mess, especially after I naively switched to elective. It takes many assasinations to keep all 3 kingdoms voting for 1 person. Any easy way of avoiding possible split of kingdoms? Could destroying kingdoms help? On the other hand I want to get as much prestige as possible because it is a MP game and score matters.

 

[Malibu Stacey]

Anyway, more to the topic. I wonder about destroying kingdom titles - I have 3 and I wont be able to get an empire any time soon. Could this help with factions? various factions emerge in all 3 kingdoms and it has become quite a mess, especially after I naively switched to elective. It takes many assasinations to keep all 3 kingdoms voting for 1 person. Any easy way of avoiding possible split of kingdoms? Could destroying kingdoms help? On the other hand I want to get as much prestige as possible because it is a MP game and score matters.

Destroying duchies works a lot better in my experience but you may find that more troublesome to start doing at a later stage if you haven't been managing it already. Getting a hold of the titles to destroy them would be the most difficult part. Destroying Kingdoms is going to upset a lot of your vassals.

 

[Hootieleece]

The problem with destroying the Kingdom titles is that you piss off large numbers of Vassals(usually 15-20,-50 malus) and then you will probably have a large Faction war to defeat.(with all its attendant problems)And then after defeat of revolt you will have to watch Superdukes like a hawk, because say you give them independence(instead of fightng)at a later time.they will probably create the Kingdoms before you can reconquer them.

 

[LodovicoAriosto]

good points. I will probably try to keep all 3 kingdom titles together and switch back to primogeniture asap. it seems there is no easy way out at this point.

One more question - if one kingdom splits away from my realm due to damn elective law, will I have a claim on it? Inheritable claim?

 

[Myrten]

Just to many vassals to keep in line with Duchy's under an Empire.That being my experience as both HRE and ERE(separate games)Also I NEVER make just DOGES and Prince ArchBishoprics.....I find it too gamey.(personal preference)

So basically the more direct vassals realm has the less stable it is? Is that your experience? I prefer doges and prince archbishoprics just because they don't expand their domain by marriage which means everything stick to de jure borders.

I also destroy almost every kingdom immediately after I got the title, it might be harder as other countries but as ERE it's not really a problem since vassals in them are newly appointed so you have huge relationship bonus towards them.

 

[Hootieleece]

Depends on if there was more than one canidate for title.but usualy you get inheritable claims to elective titles if parent was previous ruler.otherwise you must a pretender for it.