Fact of the Day: Conquering primitive pops

[Stevie the Terrible]

https://twitter.com/martin_anward/status/724040929364074496

"Conquering primitive pops will result in a culture shock that reduces production/happiness for decades."

So primitives that you choose not to help reach the space age and invade & cinque instead will struggle with to be as productive as they should be for 20+ years. Thoughts?

 

[Sopot]

Pretty much how it should be. The first generation of cavemen aren't going to understand the basic concept of machines, but the next ones will grow up with them and should be ok. Where as an industrial era person might have a better understanding of how to use machines and take less time than other primitives.

 

[ahhheygao]

All is as it should be.

 

[Oscot]

So primitives that you choose not to help reach the space age and invade & cinque instead will struggle with to be as productive as they should be for 20+ years. Thoughts?

Trivial disadvantage is trivial

 

[NekomimiMaiden]

Makes sense as a tradeoff. You either enlighten them and pour energy, society researcher efforts, and time in to make them able to fully contribute to your FTL society, or you invade them and essentially enslave them as intruders from the stars.

Mind you, "decades" is nonspecific; it might be twenty years, it might be ninety years.

 

[Stevie the Terrible]

Mind you, "decades" is nonspecific; it might be twenty years, it might be ninety years.

Agreed, that's what the + is there for, 20 being the minimum possible. Personally I reckon it could be about 30-40 years, a (human) generation and a half.

 

[Gott mit uns]

I love this facts of the day, usually coming from Wiz' Twitter.

On topic, that's great. It does make sense to me, just imagine if humanity was conquered by aliens in like 18th century. That sure as hell would be culture shock.

 

[Jerev]

Seems logical. But:
My inner genocidal maniac would like to know if the citzens of my empire or others will be more lenient to killing primitives?

Edit: not that I would willingly commit such crimes but if the holy silver hawk wishes for it who am I to question her?

 

[DeepQantas]

Should also scramble the ethos for each pop. Maybe stronger effect the more primitive they are.

This' ll result in even longer term damage without being just a simple number. And it's thematically appropriate that the society fractures as they lose their shared cultural memory.

e.
Or perhaps the more primitive they are the more likely they will turn to your state ethos. Not sure which is more appropriate.

 

[ahhheygao]

Seems logical. But:
My inner genocidal maniac would like to know if the citzens of my empire or others will be more lenient to killing primitives?

Xenophobe POPs don't care when you purge xeno scums, so why should they care if you purge primitive xeno scums?

 

[Jerev]

Xenophobe POPs don't care when you purge xeno scums, so why should they care if you purge primitive xeno scums?

That I know. I wanted to know if normal pops are more lenient towards killing primitives because normal pops could be biased that way if they are not xenophile.

 

[Vasious]

Trivial disadvantage is trivial

Hollywood movies be damned, One would hope, to a interstellar empire, Conquering a pre FTL Race is a trivial endeavour, yielding a trivial output anyway, with trivial consequences to the galaxy as a whole.

 

[stumason]

That I know. I wanted to know if normal pops are more lenient towards killing primitives because normal pops could be biased that way if they are not xenophile.

I would imagine, if you had "non xenophobe" pops in your xenophobe Empire, they will take a happiness hit as they would for other things you do in your Empire they seem to think they have the right to disagree with. Sounds to me like they could do with a purging of their own...

 

[flakmeister]

Perfect combination of gameplay balance and logic.

Gaining a prefabricated colony that needs no setup along with a bunch of free pops for the low price of a couple of ground troops is quite the power spike, especially early in the game. So making your new acquisition work at reduced output for a short while evens things out.

As for the poor idiots who didn't have the sense to invest into the XCOM project, it only makes sense that they would be slightly miffed at their new tentacled/furry/luminescent overlords.

On that note, it would be pretty cool if there actually WERE some events in the game, where the Primitives actually set up something like XCOM, they turn the tables on you, capture your troops, study your technology and suddenly you have inadvertantly uplifted a new very pissed off enemy.

 

[Olliganak]

Also, apparently

Amount of time they are culture shocked depends on their level of advancement before being conquered.

Which makes sense. You're going to have an easier time explaining lasers and robots to the the Atomic age primitives as opposed to the illiterate, screaming, stone age primitives.

also

Fortunately, it doesn't make it any harder to purge them!

Resistance is futile

 

[Vasious]

Perfect combination of gameplay balance and logic.

Gaining a prefabricated colony that needs no setup along with a bunch of free pops for the low price of a couple of ground troops is quite the power spike, especially early in the game. So making your new acquisition work at reduced output for a short while evens things out.

As for the poor idiots who didn't have the sense to invest into the XCOM project, it only makes sense that they would be slightly miffed at their new tentacled/furry/luminescent overlords.

On that note, it would be pretty cool if there actually WERE some events in the game, where the Primitives actually set up something like XCOM, they turn the tables on you, capture your troops, study your technology and suddenly you have inadvertantly uplifted a new very pissed off enemy.

That seems like more would be an option for if you were using the Infiltrate option vs direct conquest.
The Aliens in the X-Com games always seem to be holding back.

 

[TomBombadil]

If there weren't this malus, there'd be no reason not to always conquer them. It's just uplifting without the time and resources. The closest thing to this I can thing of in history was the conquest of the Native Americans and Australian, which wrought devastation on their societies. Disease, alien concepts like land ownership, the corralling of resources and animals, religious divergence, and much more. And these societies still haven't entirely recovered after centuries.

 

[Held der Arbeit]

I would like a middle ground between enlightenment (they become semi-independent and mess up your borders) and invasion (you just bomb them into perma-slavery)

Basically a situation where they become a normal planet in your Empire without enlightenment bonuses or invasion maluses, as you convinced them that joining your glorious Empire would be in their best interest. Is that what we get out of the infiltration? Or will that have maluses too?

 

[Jerev]

I would like a middle ground between enlightenment (they become semi-independent and mess up your borders) and invasion (you just bomb them into perma-slavery)

Basically a situation where they become a normal planet in your Empire without enlightenment bonuses or invasion maluses

I guess then infiltration is your way. You send disguised agents who infiltrate the primitive command structure. When they control the primitives they orchestrate a "voluntary" joining into your empire.
Here is the dev diary which explains it:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-dev-diary-13-primitive-civilizations.897491/

 

[Lexx2503]

It should also vary that window of adjustment based on age traits for venerable, short lifespans etc. Making it so that you have other criteria to consider when conquering primitive populations. Short lived workers that breed a lot and may risk becoming the dominant species in your empire? But at the massive potential economic gains as a plus? or do you go for the longer adjustment long lived primitives that have some really good niche traits and homeworld that broadens where you can settle? And all sorts of tradeoff scenarios in between.

And all of it comes from changing 1 modifier!