Facotry building. Civilian vs. military

[Dimski]

Hi guys.

I have been wondering a bit about building factories in HOI 4. I've read what Johan explained about it in DD 23 and understand what they do, but I also watched on one of the world war wednesday streams that you can convert civilian to military. So I have a few questions:

- Would it make sense to just spam civilian factories and then convert the ones you need for military? Or is their some kind of penalty?

- Can you convert the other way (from military to civilian)?

- Does civilian and military factories cost the same and take the same amount of time to build?

- Are there restrictions to the number of military and/or civilian you can build in a province, beside the number of slots? (maybe something like being unable to build military in a demilitarized zone)

Cheers.

 

[Zankoas]

"- Would it make sense to just spam civilian factories and then convert the ones you need for military? Or is their some kind of penalty? "

It costs production to switch

"- Can you convert the other way (from military to civilian)?"

I believe so

"- Does civilian and military factories cost the same and take the same amount of time to build?"

Time is proportional to cost, and sadly I am unsure as to the cost of them

"- Are there restrictions to the number of military and/or civilian you can build in a province, beside the number of slots? (maybe something like being unable to build military in a demilitarized zone)"

I don't think so, DMZ only applies to military unit I think

 

[Nicolas I]

No, there a conversion cost.

Don't know, but that would be logical.

Don't know.

Theoretically, the number of slots is the limit. But as you need civilian factories to make consumers goods and the sufficient number of civilian factories are locked, there is a limit to the number of military factories. Also, as you need civilian factories to repair things it would be a good idea to keep some.

 

[potski]

There is a cost to converting. They don't cost the same, civilian costs more. So it is much more expensive to build civilian and then convert, compared to just building the military factories.

There is no restriction on how many of each type in a state (no factories at a province level). But you must have enough civilian to satisfy your consumer demand and any trade you want to do.

 

[GsusNSV]

Does civilian and military factories cost the same and take the same amount of time to build?

The base cost may or may not be the same, but all Economy laws give boni or penalty on the build cost (=build time)
Th higher you go with the "war" laws, the faster you will be able to build military factories and the other way round.

 

[Dimski]

Thanks for the info all

 

[Dimski]

No, there a conversion cost.
Theoretically, the number of slots is the limit. But as you need civilian factories to make consumers goods and the sufficient number of civilian factories are locked, there is a limit to the number of military factories. Also, as you need civilian factories to repair things it would be a good idea to keep some.

So if you convert to many civilian your country basically starts to break down. Does it affect national unity or how does it show (besides not being abel to repair stuff)?
And I guess you could convert all civilian to military as a deperate measure (f.x germany in the spring of '45)?

 

[Nicolas I]

So if you convert to many civilian your country basically starts to break down. Does it affect national unity or how does it show (besides not being abel to repair stuff)? And I guess you could convert all civilian to military as a deperate measure (f.x germany in the spring of '45)?

Not exactly, in HOI4 the sufficient number of civilian factories to support your population is locked, you cannot access/use these factories even if you wanted.

That is different from HOI3 where you could decide to neglect your population at the cost of unrest growing.

 

[Denkt]

- Would it make sense to just spam civilian factories and then convert the ones you need for military? Or is their some kind of penalty?

Depend on then you plan to be at war. The later you plan to be in war the more it favor civilian factories. There is an opportunity cost to building civilian factories as you could have built military factories who can produce war equipment. One thing that favor civilian factories are that factories become more and more productive with each industry technology which mean factory building become more and more profitable. Expect your factories to be 3-4 times as productive in 1945 compared to 1936.

- Can you convert the other way (from military to civilian)?

It works both way

- Does civilian and military factories cost the same and take the same amount of time to build?

Civilian factories are twice as expensive to build as military factories.

 

[Nitan17]

Also, as you need civilian factories to repair things it would be a good idea to keep some.

You don't need them, buildings repair slowly by themselves. You can assign civilian factories to speed the process up, but this is optional, not necessary.

 

[Nicolas I]

You don't need them, buildings repair slowly by themselves. You can assign civilian factories to speed the process up, but this is optional, not necessary.

Not exactly. Buildings don't repair by themselves as in HOI3.

IIRC there are some off-map minimal production as a safeguard if all your civilian factories are wiped-out or if you don't keep some in surplus of the locked ones.

 

[Denkt]

Lets look at two countries who are in very different situations Germany and USA.

Germany: As Germany you should plan to be at war early on to take advantage of you starting production advantage of 40 military factories and strike before the potential stronger nations USA and Soviet union become to strong for you. By a quick early conquest of europe you may get the needed resources to later defeat Soviet and USA. If you build military factories from 1936 you will have alot more equipment then any european nation and thus you should have an easy time to make conquest and then make use of their factories to become even stronger. Building civilian factories as Germany do not bring any advantages in the 1930s but they could be a good help if you manage to conquer europe as they could help you build up a very strong production base in the 1940s for a strong late game push against Soviet and USA but the early conquest with a civilian factory buildup will be much harder so it is more risk but also possibly more gains later on.

USA: As USA you are not likely to enter the war in the first 1/3 of the game. Military factories are probably the one that gain the most from industry tech so building military factories is not that encouraged. Building civilian factories will mean an extremely strong industry base in the mid and late game which is around that time the war will come to you. As I said before a factory in 1945 is maybe 4 times as productive as one in 1936 so having more factories in 1945 is a huge huge deal if the war is still not decided.

 

[jockedahl]

What do civilian factories give exactly? What do they produce?

 

[Nicolas I]

What do civilian factories give exactly? What do they produce?

These:

Civilian industry - Used both for "Consumer goods" and building infrastructure and other buildings.

Trading for a resource locks civilian factories for its trade, which limits the amount of constructions of other buildings you can do, but if you export resources you will gain use of foreign civilian factories.

 

[jockedahl]

So civilian factories are basically a snowball mechanic for the military side. Build more civ factories early and u snowball much faster?

And also you trade them for important resources. If I play as Sweden, should i build a lot of these civ factories then?

 

[Nitan17]

Not exactly. Buildings don't repair by themselves as in HOI3.

IIRC there are some off-map minimal production as a safeguard if all your civilian factories are wiped-out or if you don't keep some in surplus of the locked ones.

I have no idea how it was in HOI3, as I have not played it much, but in HOI4 what I said is definitely true, Daniel says it here:

at about 7:33.
From Japan WWW I also remember, from sneaking a peek at tooltips, that when you have 15 factories assigned to a repair, the progress is 3% per day, but if you have no factories assigned, it is 1% per day.

 

[Dimski]

Thanks for all the comments and explanations guys.
So it would seem that the best tactic or approach to building factories all depends on when you're planning to go to war, and maybe also what kind of techs you're going for and when?

I have played, and are still playing, HOI 2 a lot (HOI 3 never caught on for me) and there I stockpile a lot - f.x building a mountain of rare as germany so I can spit out tanks and even carriers, but after 11 years I think it would be interesting to try something else. So I'm looking forward to trying out the industri system in HOI 4, it looks completly different from HOI 2 (from what I have read in the DD's and watched on the streams).

 

[Denkt]

So civilian factories are basically a snowball mechanic for the military side. Build more civ factories early and u snowball much faster?

And also you trade them for important resources. If I play as Sweden, should i build a lot of these civ factories then?

If you built military factories you could maybe have made some early conquest which you maybe could not have done if you had built civilian factories so it is not that simple. But for nations that will not be at war for a long time have alot more to gain from civilian factories as a late game factory is far more productive then a early game factory.

I don't know which strategy you plan to use as Sweden but if you like to do early conquest then go with military factories and if you like to do a neutral strategy or side with the allies then you should go with civilian factories but do not neglect your military needs as you can be at war before you get the chance to prepare your army.

 

[Nicolas I]

I have no idea how it was in HOI3, as I have not played it much, but in HOI4 what I said is definitely true, Daniel says it here: at about 7:33.
From Japan WWW I also remember, from sneaking a peek at tooltips, that when you have 15 factories assigned to a repair, the progress is 3% per day, but if you have no factories assigned, it is 1% per day.

He didn't say they repair by themselves. He say they repair slowly. Not incompatible with the off-map basic production I evoked.

The 1% progress can also attributed the off-map basic production I evoked.

I will try to find were they said something about that. I remember this was an answer to someone asking what would happen if all civilian factories were destroyed, you would be doomed because civilian factories are needed to repair other civilian factories.

EDIT 1: In HOI3 the factories healed by themselves over time, for free. In HOI4 you must spend some production, but has you said correctly there is also a basic slower repair level. So you are right in a sense, but using auto-repair to describe it could be misleading for HOI3 veterans. This is why I wanted to add this perspective.

EDIT 2: Here it is.

If you need factories to rebuild factories, what happens if all factories are destroyed?

There is a failsafe with about half a factories worth of civilians banding together to do stuff with the rubble (so you cant get stuck).

 

[Victor Cortez]

There are lots of things to consider. The US, for example, will be trading a lot (and will receive lots of Civ factories), so they can focus on building equipment to lend-lease to other people before they actually enter the war.