Fabricating Claims on a Duchy

[Daelix]

OK, just want some clarification on this. It talks about Fabricating Claims on a Duchy requires a minimum of 15+ Diplo. Does this mean actually fabricating a claim on the entire duchy, or does it just mean you need higher diplomacy to Fabricate claims on a province occupied by a Ducal-level individual? It's pretty ambiguous on this point.

 

[DC123456789]

OK, just want some clarification on this. It talks about Fabricating Claims on a Duchy requires a minimum of 15+ Diplo. Does this mean actually fabricating a claim on the entire duchy, or does it just mean you need higher diplomacy to Fabricate claims on a province occupied by a Ducal-level individual? It's pretty ambiguous on this point.

You need a +15 Diplomacy Chancellor to fabricate a claim on a duchy. The chances are lower, though, than for just a county. It is perfectly possible to fabricate claims on counties held by dukes or higher with a >15 Diplomacy Chancellor.

 

[Daelix]

OK, so if you fabricate claims on a duchy, you get a casus belli for the entire duchy? If that's the case, how do you fabricate a claim on a duchy? Just put him in a province owned by a duke?

 

[jordarkelf]

You get a claim on the duchy so you can try and war for it, yes.
Just put him in the demesne of a current duke, he'll try for both the comital and ducal title.

 

[Daelix]

Oh ok. So it's not like the county and ducal titles are mutually exclusive missions. Thanks guys

Just wondering because this is the only way besides inheritance claims for my Pagan kingdom to actually gain more than 1 province per war. Can't wait for a Pagan DLC to add advanced war CBs to the Pagan nations.

 

[jordarkelf]

You can always join a larger realm and then plot for the title - the only way to get kingdom or empire claims without marrying.

 

[Daelix]

You can always join a larger realm and then plot for the title - the only way to get kingdom or empire claims without marrying.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllll yeah but I'm always loath to bend my knee to a foreign infidel lord after beating them back in several wars, and going from this:

,

to this:

,

to this:

.

I'm really partial to the blue, but I can deal with the burnt sienna. Plus, there are only two choices of nations I could pick for Overlord, one of which rhymes with Goalie Loman Crossfire (disclaimer: not a real person), and the other one wears too much purple.

 

[Kaiser Ludwig]

You get a claim on the duchy so you can try and war for it, yes.
Just put him in the demesne of a current duke, he'll try for both the comital and ducal title.

But what happens if it's a duke of many places, and he doesn't have a county in his primary dejure duchy? I.E. he's the Duke of Sicily and Calabria and Sardinia, primary title Sicily, but his only demesne is in Sardinia. Where do you send your chancellor to get the claim on Sicily??

 

[Daelix]

But what happens if it's a duke of many places, and he doesn't have a county in his primary dejure duchy? I.E. he's the Duke of Sicily and Calabria and Sardinia, primary title Sicily, but his only demesne is in Sardinia. Where do you send your chancellor to get the claim on Sicily??

This is a good question. Does such a situation mean,

A) You put your chancellor in Sicily for a chance to fabricate claim on Sicily,
B) You put your chancellor in Sardinia (where the liege of Sicily resides) for a chance to fabricate claim on Sicily, or
C) Your chancellor can't fabricate a claim on the Duchy of Sicily, only its counties, due to these circumstances

 

[jordarkelf]

Going by the event code, creating a claim on such a duchy is impossible. It looks at the location of your chancellor, and then checks if the owner of that province has the county and/or the duchy (obviously the county will always be held), then tries to create a claim on either of the two titles it succeeds for (providing he has diplo 15 and /can/ do the duchy). If this multi-duke doesn't have a title in Sicily this'll fail as a chancellor placed in a Sicilian province will only be able to get a county claim, and one placed in Sardinia will go for Sardinia instead.

 

[DeaTh-ShiNoBi]

It will take multiple wars, unfortunately, but you can always acquire 50% of the de jure counties of Sicily and simply usurp the Duchy. That sounds inconvenient, though. Sorry.

 

[Daelix]

Going by the event code, creating a claim on such a duchy is impossible. It looks at the location of your chancellor, and then checks if the owner of that province has the county and/or the duchy (obviously the county will always be held), then tries to create a claim on either of the two titles it succeeds for (providing he has diplo 15 and /can/ do the duchy). If this multi-duke doesn't have a title in Sicily this'll fail as a chancellor placed in a Sicilian province will only be able to get a county claim, and one placed in Sardinia will go for Sardinia instead.

Thanks for the info, Jordar. So if he's the Duke of Sicily and Sardinia, the way to get Sicily then is to fabricate and conquer Sardinia, forcing him to move to Sicily. Then you can fabricate your claim on Sicily.

 

[jordarkelf]

That's one way of doing it. The other is to take enough counties there so you can usurp.
Or if he has gavelkind and multiple heirs, assassinate him so that you get a local Sicilian duke.

(or mod the claim creation event so it can also create a claim on a duchy if the local count is a vassal of one).

 

[Daelix]

(or mod the claim creation event so it can also create a claim on a duchy if the local count is a vassal of one).

I leave that in your capable hands, good sir. Anyway, I now know I can fabricate duchies, so I'll focus on hitting large ones, since that and marriage are the only two ways for my kingdom of Mielliki worshipers to grow at a faster pace than one province per truce.

 

[jordarkelf]

I added a small mod on how to allow you to create claims on duchies held by someone's liege in my various micro-mods thread.