Fabricating a duchy claim

[unmerged(476547)]

As count of Leicester (and Lincoln... and for some reason Gwent) I now want to take over the Duchy of York. I've got my pretty decent Chancellor off fabricating claims in York with no success yet. At the moment the current Duke of York is still my liege...

...is it even possible to get a claim on the Duchy while I'm still a vassal? Do I need to become independent of the Duchy first before my Chancellor can do his work? Am I right in thinking that even if I occupy all of Yorkshire I can't usurp because we're both still part of the same realm (England)?

I think I'm running out of options. I do have a couple of the current Duke's relations in my court and could declare a war to make THEM the new Duke... but I can't see that getting me any closer to inheriting the Duchy itself.

 

[unmerged(140582)]

I don't think there's a way to improve your chances (well, aside from arranging a marriage and working towards inheriting it down the line). And yes, you cannot usurp the title even if you get your hands on 100% of all de jure counties as long as you both are part of England. So, obviously one of you will have to revolt.
Fabricating claims on a duchy just has a low success chance. You'll have to prepare for a long, long wait until it finally happens, quite possibly several decades and generations of chancellors. It very well may never happen at all, so I'd definitely suggest working on a second long-term strategy in the meanwhile.

 

[AchedTeacher]

As count of Leicester (and Lincoln... and for some reason Gwent) I now want to take over the Duchy of York. I've got my pretty decent Chancellor off fabricating claims in York with no success yet. At the moment the current Duke of York is still my liege...

...is it even possible to get a claim on the Duchy while I'm still a vassal? Do I need to become independent of the Duchy first before my Chancellor can do his work? Am I right in thinking that even if I occupy all of Yorkshire I can't usurp because we're both still part of the same realm (England)?

I think I'm running out of options. I do have a couple of the current Duke's relations in my court and could declare a war to make THEM the new Duke... but I can't see that getting me any closer to inheriting the Duchy itself.

Lol, so let me get this straight, you are a count of Leicester, under the duke of York (not Northumberland?), which is under the king of England? I'm not sure how Wars of Independence would work then, sorry. If your liege is independent, however, you probably can just wage a war of independence.

 

[unmerged(476547)]

Lol, so let me get this straight, you are a count of Leicester, under the duke of York (not Northumberland?), which is under the king of England? I'm not sure how Wars of Independence would work then, sorry. If your liege is independent, however, you probably can just wage a war of independence.

Yup, that's the feudal system for you. Vassals under vassals under vassals. And yes, Leicester is part of the de Jure duchy of York. The Duke of York has tried for independence before, so might do again. I guess that's when to strike, but I figure that the king would smack down any rebellion before I got control of the county.

But to go back to my original question: is it possible to fabricate a claim on the duchy while I'm a vassal under it?

 

[AchedTeacher]

Yup, that's the feudal system for you. Vassals under vassals under vassals. And yes, Leicester is part of the de Jure duchy of York. The Duke of York has tried for independence before, so might do again. I guess that's when to strike, but I figure that the king would smack down any rebellion before I got control of the county.

But to go back to my original question: is it possible to fabricate a claim on the duchy while I'm a vassal under it?

pretty sure that is possible. And yes, you should strike once your liege strikes against England, because at the very start of a war of independence, the nation is effectively already independent. But obviously, since you are a count, and probably don't have a very good chancellor, this might take a while.

 

[unmerged(241678)]

You can get a claim on your lieges duchy by a) getting lucky when your chanclor is fabricating a claim in one of the lieges counties, b) invite a claiment and marry him into your dynasty c) marry your lieges daughter/lower sons into your dynasty and have the children inherit the claim d) plot to change the duchy to elective and get voted or at least nominated to get the pretenders claim.

Since all three options can take a long time you might consider a different approach to become a duke (not the duke of York but a duke non the less).
Fight your liege (the Duke of York) for your indepandance and you become a direct vassal of the King which allready allows you to fight all other dukes in the kingdom to gain counties or other duchies. Usually when you manage to expand a little your new liege the king will grant you a Duchy he can create somewhere which not only allows you to have counts as vassals but since you might not own any of your duchies de-jure titles you get lots of ducal claims

 

[Tjolme]

Yes, you can gain claims against your liege. You need a very high diplomancy to even have a small chance to fabricate a claim on a duchy, I believe the minimum is 15 skill.

However, you are both part of the same realm so there is no way you could ever usurp the duchy title. All you can do is take all the land that the current Duke controls away from him, then the Duke title will no longer exist (he can't hold a Duke title without holding a landed title also). After this you can create the title for yourself, but be fast because your King is likely to try and create it also and then hand it out more or less at random.

 

[Wellington]

I am a Duke now because the other dukes favoured another to inherit the realm, and my father the king suddenly died in a plot. I am trying to get my hands on the Dutchy of Vestlandet and have conquered 3 of 4 Counties (all settlememts pacified in them). When I poin the Usurp button it still says that I have conquered 0/4 counties. Is that because my and the Vestlandet dutchy is in the same realm? If it is I really miss the ingame explanation....

 

[Isaios]

I am a Duke now because the other dukes favoured another to inherit the realm, and my father the king suddenly died in a plot. I am trying to get my hands on the Dutchy of Vestlandet and have conquered 3 of 4 Counties (all settlememts pacified in them). When I poin the Usurp button it still says that I have conquered 0/4 counties. Is that because my and the Vestlandet dutchy is in the same realm? If it is I really miss the ingame explanation....

You need to OWN the Counties, not just control them in a war. If you have a CLAIM on the Ducal title on the other hand, you could have declared war for that specifically. What's your reason for war?

And what's with all this necromancy?